The mortgage industry is evolving alongside a major demographic shift: Americans are living longer than ever before, and that reality is transforming the way borrowers approach retirement, home equity, and homeownership. In today’s Hot Topic, David Lykken sits down with mortgage veteran Michael Banner to discuss the rise of the “longevity economy” and why mortgage professionals must move beyond simply quoting rates to becoming long-term financial guides for their clients. From debunking myths surrounding reverse mortgages to uncovering a unique down payment assistance program with no income limits, Banner shares how today’s loan officers can help borrowers navigate rising home prices, retirement challenges, and multi-decade financial planning. This conversation delivers timely insights for mortgage professionals looking to stay relevant in a rapidly changing housing market.
[David] Welcome to another episode of Lickit on Lending. I have a special guest with me, Michael Banner. He also is the host of a program called 62 Who Knew Solutions. Talking about those that are over 62 years old. We’re living longer and Michael has a lot of experience working with reverse mortgages and he’s also discovered a new vein of gold in down payment assistance. So we’re looking forward to having him on and sharing with him some of his knowledge and what his experiences. Michael, good to have you back friend.
[Michael] Thank you so much. It’s always such a pleasure to do anything with you, David. It doesn’t make a difference what it is, but if it’s with you, I’m happy to do it.
[David] Congratulations on your success of your TV program, 62 Who Knew. It’s really, you’re having some major numbers coming in on some recent podcasts or broadcasts. I think that’s awesome. You know, for the sake of our listeners, let’s get into introducing yourself again. It’s been a while since we’ve had you on the podcast. So we’ve got a whole lot more listeners these days, growing constantly like your audience is, but tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.
[Michael] Well, it’s hard to believe it in February. This past February was 44 years in the mortgage business. I’m obviously a glutton for punishment like you, David, but I love the industry. I love helping people. I say so many times on my podcast that a lot of people have forgotten that the American dream is to own a home and mortgage people make that possible. So I thoroughly enjoyed it about 20 years ago, 21 years ago. I developed a national niche in the reverse mortgage world. Never stopped doing my regular mortgages, but reverse mortgages are still so surrounded and infected by half-truths and misinformation that it’s staggering. You have Nobel Prize winners out there. Let’s forget Mike Banner. There’s Nobel Prize winners out there in economics saying that the reverse mortgage should be the fourth leg of the third of the three-legged financial stool home equity, but it hasn’t done that and we have failed as a reverse mortgage industry to get that great message out. And I’ve enjoyed being a natural spokesman for that.
[David] There have been a lot of changes to the program as well, which also had an impact on it. But I mean, I appreciate the fact that you’ve been a champion of that product and still are helping people in many, ways.
[Michael] Yep. It’s definitely not reverse mortgage of yesteryear. The reverse mortgage of yesteryear had a lot of problems. And then, of course, about 15 months ago, I started 62 Who Knew. And the whole premise of 62 Who Knew is not really about mortgages or reverse mortgages. It’s the fact that who knew at 62 years old, we have better than a 50-50 chance of making it to 90. This is not like our father’s and our grandfathers. And I personally believe and so do a lot of people that longer lifespans is probably the most serious double edged that any generation has ever faced.
[David] What do mean by that? What do you mean by that in this? And I think I know where you’re going with it, but explain to our audience.
[Michael] Well, as far as double-edged sword, mean, according to statistics that I usually don’t trust, but these came from trusted sources over the last decade, about 2% of this country is capable of retiring in their 60s with enough cash reserve in their portfolio, insurance protection based on inflation, and live a quality life. Now, our parents, our grandparents, they needed to plan for six years, 10 years. Today, today’s person needs to plan for 25 or 30 years and it’s staggering to think about that how many people are just not prepared for that. And it’s, I’m kind of glad, 62 who news, we get about 25,000 views and we’re growing every month, but our average viewer is in their 50s and that’s perfect because that’s when you have to start preparing to have a great life in your 70s and 80s. So that double-edged sword can be turned around when you have the proper planning and we bring on great people like yourself you’ve been on, you’re getting ready to come on again next month. We bring on annuity experts, long-term care experts, life insurance experts, social security experts, and we help people plan. Because again, Who Knew at 62 we were gonna be around another 30 years.
[David] Yeah, that’s for sure. I’m running my second 5k this coming Saturday. And so it had 75 years old, I didn’t plan on doing that. But I’m good. I’m enjoying it. But I think we are.
[Michael] You’re incredible. mean, if I did, David, if I did 5K in my car, I’d be tired.
[David] Well, I’m looking forward to it. And in my time, I have a personal time, a personal best. I’m going to go beat, but anyway, but there’s, it’s fun to see so many that are really a good shape living longer and longer, you know, for most people that are planning their future, you hit on a good point. Most have not planned. Therefore they’re struggling to come up with a down payment and you’ve recently discovered that there is a down payment assistant program with no limits and talk about that if you wouldn’t mind.
[Michael] Yeah, almost every down payment assistance program that I’ve run into in my 44 year career has an income limit or an income ceiling. Many times it’s the county or city median income. I’ve even seen 120% of that median income. But the mortgage company that I work for right now, American Pacific Mortgage, has a proprietary program that I didn’t even know about until a couple months ago. I kind of accidentally found out about it with no income ceiling and I let that sit in for a little while. And like many times at my age, about three in the morning, I went, wait a minute, no income ceiling. So, I did a little more research. As an older guy, I’m addicted to AI. I have to admit, I love artificial intelligence. I went into artificial intelligence and I started doing some research. Is it interest rates in the sixes and inflation stopping people from buying houses because the real estate market is in terrible shape in most parts of this country? Or is it that they can’t come up with the huge down payment because houses are so expensive and everything that I read said the latter? It’s not rates. It’s not that they refinanced and their current rate is three percent. It’s that they’re married. They have three children. two fairly big car payments, payments on their children’s braces, dance lessons that they’re making low six figures, but they can’t come up with 30, 40 grand. They just can’t do it. So, they rent for 3,000 a month. So we now are doing, well, I am, it’s a definite market disruptor, loans in the 450 to 550 range for people buying houses in that price range, 500 to 550. And we are doing a down payment assistance program and giving them that 3.5%. It’s an FHA loan. you know, it’s just so funny, David, when I went into business in 1982, FHA loan limits were $89,000. You know, today, they’re 541,000. So you can buy up to, you know, a $560,000 house put down three and a half percent and have $541,000 loan amount and we’ll give you the down payment. And quite frankly, in today’s market, asking a seller to pay three or four or five percent of the closing costs, that’s quite normal in today’s market. So, now suddenly, we’re giving them the down payment and the seller’s paying the closing costs and they’re going from a $3,000 a month rental to a $3,000 a month, half a million dollar. It really has been an incredible accidental find for me.
[David] It’s an interesting program. I did not know that there are no limits on the income and that, that is unique. Is that unique to your company or is.
[Michael] I always tell the truth. No, there are other bigger companies, American Pacific Mortgage is the ninth largest independent lender in the country and there are other companies our size that also have proprietary programs. Until three months ago, neither have I.
[David] Yeah, it’s amazing. All right, Michael, for most of us, we have our largest asset being our home and in a longevity economy. I want to get you like to get your thoughts on how mortgage professionals and mortgage originally should think differently about the home equity, especially in the retirement years.
[Michael] You know, this is a subject that’s very close to my heart, being a career mortgage person. I think the days of the mortgage person just being the mortgage person and quoting the rate. I think those days have been gone for many years, yet a lot of the industry hasn’t matured with it. I think we have to start acting a little bit more like a financial planner, certainly not recommending stocks or bonds, but their mortgage, their home is their largest asset. Conversely, it’s their largest liability. And it’s about time for us to sit down with people in their 50s, of course, if they qualify and go, why in the world are you getting a 30 year mortgage? Do you really want to be 85 when you make the last payment? Let’s look at a 20 year. Let’s look at a 15 year. Let’s work with a partner or let me work with your financial planner to do better things with your money than make a mortgage payment for 30 years.
[David] Yeah, you were talking about most people can’t afford, especially the seniors, can’t afford a down payment. Now you’re asking them to go to a 15 year mortgage, which is higher payments typically, granted it’s a lower interest rate. How many of them can afford to do that?
[Michael] You know, a couple of things. This advice that I’m giving is really more for a 45, 50, 50 year old, not really for 62 and above. This advice is again, talking to a, I’m talking about the forward mortgage world, not the reverse mortgage world. We have to start treating our clients as if we’re helping them prepare for longevity. Those 62, those 70 year old people, I’m not going to say the ship is sailed, but if they haven’t done a lot of preparing by then, then you’re right. think they need the lowest payment. But that 45, 50, 55 year old person who may be in the height of their income life, let’s start looking at a little bit of a lower term so that home is free and clear and quite frankly, you never need a reverse mortgage because you’re not being payment into debt.
[David] We talk about how the industry has changed dramatically. We got AI and so many other things that are here now, and you talked about it a little bit. If a mortgage professional wants to stay relevant in this new longevity economy, what is the single biggest mindset shift they need to make when advising clients approaching retirement?
[Michael] Well, it’s very similar to my last answer. First of all, you have to embrace the technology of today and like every other dinosaur, I resisted that years ago. But you have to you have to embrace the technology today, even if it’s not AI. It’s just the incredible mortgage technology. You know, we’re approving people now literally desktop underwriting, which is Fannie Mae’s artificial intelligence underwriting or LP loan prospector, Freddie Mac, underwriting AI. We’re approving people now in minutes. It’s not like when you and I started in the 70s and you have to embrace that. you also have to, I think you have to keep that personal factor in there. Yes, I approved you in seven minutes. That is incredible. Here’s your rate. Here’s your estimate of closing. But now let’s talk about your life. What’s your goals? How long do you plan on being in this house? this is my last house of my life or no, I’m transferred every three to five years or Michael, we’re just going to stay here till the kids are out of high school and in college. That should base your decision on what type of mortgage to give these people, not what the computer tells you. So, I think our industry has to embrace the technology, but never forget, you know, we’re making again, the largest suggestion to them for their largest asset and largest liability. Stay involved. Treat them like you would yourself or anybody else. Make the plan with them.
[David] That’s great. That’s going back to being the financial planner, taking the financial planner approach. I really appreciate you being here with me. You really have a passion to help more of the older generation out there. You’ll work with all, all generations, but I know you have a real passion. How can people learn more about who 62 who knew
[Michael] Well, go to without a doubt, we have a beautiful website. Go to www.62whoknew.com. I’m very proud to say that everything that is offered on that website is free. I put together and that information came from the best of the best of those industries. It’s it’s not a Michael Banner mortgage person, you know, concoction of long-term care insurance. These have come from the best underwriters, the best financial planners, the best New York Times, bestselling authors on each one of these topics, Medicare, Social Security, long-term care insurance, annuities. Go onto the website, click on the link, fill out the information, get the free guide. Like I said, there’s never any obligation and we just, want to help people plan for retirement. And as always, I want to help people 62 and above, I should, you I used to say the older people, but now it’s me. Yeah. And I want to help them have the highest quality of life possible during the last segment of their lives, because that’s what it’s all about.
[David] So true. Michael, great to be with you again. Thanks so much for coming on.
[Michael] Thank you so much for having me. Look forward to seeing you on 62 Who Knew and we’ll reverse positions.
[David] Well, looking forward to that. All right, sir. Have a blessed day. Appreciate you being here.
[Michael] Thank you so much.