S10:E57 | 02-28-2022 Freddie Mac AIM For Income Using Direct Deposit Data With Brent Chandler And Kevin Kauffman
In our Hot Topic this week we have Brent Chandler, Founder, and CEO @ FormFree & Kevin Kauffman, VP of Client and Partner Delivery @ Freddie Mac to discuss Freddie Mac’s announcement of a capability that allows mortgage lenders to assess homebuyer income using direct deposit data & as FormFree is a Freddie Mac partner, how do they work together to make this happen?
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Freddie Mac AIM For Income Using Direct Deposit Data With Brent Chandler And Kevin Kauffman
It is Monday, February 28, 2022, the last dayof February. I’m about ready to put that in the review mirror. We are going to start in March. What a crazy time it is. What's going on in Ukraine? I can't wait to get Matt Graham on here and get talk to you about that. I also listened to Les Parker's soundbite that he put into us. It’s great content we have got coming to you. This show is created by mortgage professionals. It is four mortgage professionals, realtors, builders, and anyone else that wants to read. You have got some consumers reading from time to time, graduate students, and people in finance and colleges. We have picked up a pretty good listing group from within certain universities. It’s a compliment. I love to hear from you. Thank you much to many of you that have contacted me to let me know.“A professor turned me onto your show.” It's good. I Appreciate it. The reason they do that is that our commitment to is bring you timely information in a blog that you can read anytime and anywhere. We will talk about timely hot topics. Our hot topic segment is with Brent Chandler, the Founder, and CEO of FormFree, and Kevin Kauffman, the Vice President of Client and Partner Delivery at Freddie Mac. We are going to be talking about Freddie Mac's announcement of a capability that allows mortgage lenders to access home buyer income using direct deposit data and FormFree is a Freddie Mac partner. We will know all about that, how they are working together and how that came about. Freddie Mac is the major leader and the other, as we refer to them sometimes the evil twins, Fannie Mae. They are a leader but then here comes along a guy like Brent Chandler, the Mr. Innovative. I got this idea. I love his energy and his positive outlook. We are going to have both Kevin and Brent on the show. You are going to enjoy this interview. I'm looking forward to sharing it with you and having you be a part of it. It's going to be great.Let's get over and say thank you to some folks that we are partnered with. Check out all the episodes at IndustrySyndicate.com. They do a great job of promoting my episode. A special thank you to the MBA, Mortgage Bankers Association of America. Be sure to get signed up for the Mortgage Action Alliance Application Mall app to have your voice heard and support what they are doing on the hill. They are a powerful voice for us. We are not the biggest group in the world because the realtors association has a much larger voice so do the builders.We need to make sure that we support the efforts of the Mortgage Bankers Association of America and what they are doing. The MBA does a great job. It's how you can do it whether you are a member or not, you can download the Mortgage Action Alliance app and have your voice heard because when you agree with something they are saying and you post it, it will go out to all the various representatives and senators where you are located. It's a great tool and functionality in there.Finastra Fusion Mortgagebot Solution. I’m grateful for their sponsorship. They are a market leader in providing a point of sale. Origination platforms are going to be with them. I'm speaking and moderating for Finastra at the IDCA down in San Antonio. We will be down there doing a session with all the community bankers flying into San Antonio. I’m going to be there. I look forward to seeing you come up. Introduce yourself. I love to hear from you.Lenders One does a great job along with The Mortgage Collaborative. Both of these co-ops do a great job of communicating with vendor members and lender members. They get everyone to communicate better. It doesn't replace the MBA, but both these organizations do a great job of helping bring small and more intimate groups together to talk about your business. We have got the Lenders One Conference coming up. It's out at the winter conference in JW Marriott Phoenix. I look forward to seeing many of you there. The Mortgage Collaborative as TMC Days in Miami at the Fountain Blue is going to be March 19 through 22, 2022. Both these co-ops do a great job and these conferences, be sure to get out to them.One of our newer sponsors, Total Expert, it’s great to have them. Their leading FinTech software company delivers purpose-built CRM. Imagine that it brings about greater customer engagement and helps many. They have got a new platform that they are going to be announcing on our show. It’s exciting. The Total Expert platform unified data marketing, sales, and compliance solutions to provide a cohesive experience throughout and across the customer lifecycle. Check it out. I’m looking forward to having them on again as guests. We have got them scheduled for March 28, 2022. Also, Knowledge Coop does a great job helping you with our learning management system. Go to TryTheCoop.com to find out about what's being released on April 1, 2022.Mobility MMI and Modex, both of these tools give you access to data that's rich when it comes to recruiting. Both these companies do a great job at giving you intelligence and where to go, what markets open up to, and who to recruit in those markets. Snapdocs is an eVault solution that will help you simplify eNotes and transact across many partners. They are also doing much when it comes to eClosing and pushing the whole e-Agenda forward. Checking them out.Also, in the episode, we interviewed Vishal Rana. It has very good information and they are still getting a lot of downloads. Also, success to Julian Lumpkin at SuccessKit helps you tell your story through testimonials. Nothing is more powerful than another voice communicating about what you do and have done well for others. Check it out.We interviewed Julian on January 10, 2022. I encourage you to check that out. As well as Lender Toolkit, my friend Brent Emler there, and PennyMac. I’m grateful for them, as well as FormFree and DW Consulting. We are thrilled to have all these sponsors be a part of it. Special thank you goes out to Rob, Les, Alice, Allen, Matt, and Jack Nunnery for their contributions to the episode each and every week.
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Welcome everybody to the hot topic segment. I’m very excited to have you here with us. It is February 28, 2022. We have as our special guest today, Brent Chandler, Founder and CEO of FormFree. Joining him is someone I have enjoyed getting to know, Kevin Kauffman. He is the Vice President of Client and Partner Delivery at Freddie Mac. We are here going to be discussing Freddie Mac's announcement of a capability that allows mortgage lenders to access home buyer income using direct deposit data. It’s very interesting. FormFree has formed a wonderful partnership with Freddie Mac and how they work together. We are going to know all about it. Brent, good to have you back. Kevin, good to have you joining us for the first time. I appreciate both of you being here with us.
Thanks for having us.
Brent, I love the innovation. I love how you find people that have the right mindset to partner with you and how you do the same Inspiring innovation at the GSEs specifically we are talking about Freddie Mac. Kevin, it’s your first time on the show. Tell us a little bit about yourself to our readers who don't know who you are, to get a little more information of who you are and what you are about.
I am the Head of Client and Partner Delivery at Freddie Mac. What that means is I’m responsible for managing the ecosystem providers such as Brent’s LOS and POS providers. I get the great opportunity to work with pretty much anyone in the technology space that's on the market, as well as the awesome opportunity to get to work with lenders in implementing and optimizing solutions in the market. It's a great culture at Freddie Mac.
I have been in this industry for many years. I have sat in a lot of different seats from the loan originator to processing, compliance training, underwriting, to lost mitigation back when we used to be able to knock on doors to collect checks and different things. It was very interesting. I went on and spent about ten years developing technology in the mortgage space. Brent and I have had this conversation a lot in the past. It's been about the timing of ideas means a lot. Brent and the team working with us at Freddie Mac timing matters in the industry. I’m excited to be here and talk about this topic.
We are excited to have you here. On February 15, 2022, Freddie Mac announced this capability that allows mortgage literacy to access home buyer income using direct deposits. For our readers that are unfamiliar with this news, walk us through how this all works. I think it's great. It is encouraging.
It's one of the more exciting times to be in the industry for multiple reasons. Here at Freddie Mac, along with our partners like Brent at FormFree and the rest of his team, we believe we are building a better mortgage process. That's important to think about. You think about all the costs, steps, and compliance. We are creating all these wonderful things that are a part of your process. How do you take a look at them and say, “How can they get optimized?” At Freddie Mac, we have a mission that's focused on affordable home ownership, sustainable housing, and creating access to credit, equity and housing.
These things, and to break it down very specifically, I'm going to make it very easy for the folks to understand. If you are a client of FormFree leveraging account check, you are providing that asset data, reviewing the report, and at that point in time, you have the ability to see the direct deposits from a borrower, which then can be leveraged as income. Through our integration and our partnership with FormFree, we have the ability to take that information from FormFree, be able to ingest it, and come up with the desired income for that transaction that's accessible through the assets.
Brent, I'm interested in this partnership how this all came about and how you fit into all this.
First of all, thank you for having me. Kevin, being able to talk about this important initiative is a tipping point and an evolutionary cycle that's been going on for the past decades. It's probably one of the biggest enhancements and advancements of technology usage and data intelligence in terms of creating that greater efficiency in the mortgage process to date. Why? You say, “How do these relationships begin?”
Kevin and I have known each other for many years now. We have become friends in terms of working together. Our true inspiration is creating greater credit efficiency models for everybody. It's not for certain types of individuals, but it's for everyone. The ways that we can begin to look at information differently from the source, this journey started with the creation of FormFree.
Direct Deposit Data: Freddie Mac's true inspiration is creating greater credit efficiency models for everybody. It's not for certain types of individuals but for everyone.
We introduced ideas as early as 2009 and Freddie Mac was one of the first to begin working on thesises towards improving the process and understanding the value of this data that was coming from the actual source. We could rely on it. That then began all these inspirations that are now culminating with this announcement on February 15, 2022. The relationship started many years ago. The efforts and work effort that all the teams put in.
It is an exciting innovative time as Kevin said to be in this industry because we are seeing the culmination of that happening. To hold me in a seat is hard. When we think about the impact it has on the industry and where it's headed, we are getting to this place where instant information and the ability to evaluate that information, for consumers and borrowers to understand what they are capable of and lenders to be able to have greater efficiency but also understand risks. For those investors, everybody wins in this situation. To be able to work on that, provide pioneering ideas towards that and work together in concert with a major organization like Freddie Mac, it's a dream come true.
Kevin, expound a little bit more on the February 15, 2022, announcement. A little more color in detail about that if you wouldn't mind.
The guide bulletin come. You will see it available in Freddie Mac's guide update on March 2, 2022. The countdown is on, but to break it down, it's pretty simple. Ninety-three percent of all people in our country are paid via direct deposit. When you are able to look at this information, validate, and this could be social security, VA benefits, other levels of fixed income, or W-2. It's those things that are truly W-2 paid employees. By leveraging an account check solution and by looking at assets. If it's a W-2 baseline pay, you need twelve months. If you start to look beyond that history of information, we are looking at a greater period of time only looking at the income.
For something like fixed income, we are looking at a two-plus month history to be able to determine, “Is this a repeatable source of income?” You think about the borrower aspect of this. You have to think about it from the standpoint of, “How many times have you received the wrong documentation from a borrower? How many times have you had to make incorrect calculations in your submission?”
Once you get this from the account check, you make your submission to LPA. We are going to come up with and we are going to tell you, “Income is good. Income is bad. You need more,” or whatever it is we give you that thumbs up or down that tells you what steps to take. In reality of it is in more cases than not, we are going to be able to provide you with a sense of the direction that you need to go with this transaction at the point of sale, which is extremely crucial.
Brent, do you want to add to that?
In the vein of simplicity, for anyone who is using our products in any capacity through a POS directly with us or a proprietary system, those folks that are using it, we account for close to 3,500 lenders on our application. For any of those lenders that are using account checks or have access to it and haven't used them, this is a compelling reason to begin using them on every loan.
We think of it, as to Kevin's point, 93% of Americans have a direct deposit which could be evaluated. It's a huge opportunity to streamline your market efficiency. This turns into if time is money and margin is what we are constrained to look at growing, then time is the margin. This is going to cut fifteen days in the process. It's going to be instant access. You have to opt into the program, but effectively opting into the program enables access to this data and then we do the rest. It's streamlining the process one step further than it's ever been.
[bctt tweet="93% of Americans have a direct deposit which could be evaluated. It's a huge opportunity to streamline market efficiency." via="no"]
I love the innovation. Alice, let's get over to you for a question.
I think this is amazing and I love it. You touched on how to get started. It sounds like it's already there, plugs and play. I'm assuming we need to reach out and learn some more.
To get started from this, we look at it as an opportunity to help lenders optimize their process. As we have been at this for a long time, you have to think about how many successes and failures have there been in implementing technology. I heard all the advertisements. It's amazing to hear all of the updates from Matt, Alice, and you on the desktop appraisal, but what is success?
Success is having a plan to implement. If you go, “We are going to turn it on, close our eyes and the world's going to be great,” some of you might get it right, but in a large set of cases, what we want to do is engage in making sure that you are thinking about the things that matter. Things that matter are, “Have you trained your LOS and your underwriter? Have you developed a marketing campaign? Have you analyzed what percentage of loans you typically get that fit into the fixed-income bucket?”
[bctt tweet="Success is having an actual plan to implement." via="no"]
Let's develop that plan that's going to start to build up success for your organization because we know in many cases across our industry, loan officers are going to get comfortable with something until it doesn't work. Once it doesn't work, they are going to go, “Send me all your bank statements, pay stubs, and all of these things that I don't need.” Then you are going to say, “We are going to help you implement it and develop a process that tells you when to ask for the documents and why to ask for them.” That's where we are going to start to see the tipping point in this industry. I can tell you from my seat, we have started to see that tipping point in the adoption of these tools in a successful optimal lens over the past few years more than ever.
Leaps and bounds of percentages of clients adopting and adopting at a high rate and seeing utilization grow. Part of the Freddie Mac edge that we believe is we are here to help. We have dedicated implementation resources that when you are working with us and we are partnered with FormFree, we don't stop there. We are not blind to the opportunity, which is, “Who is your POS or LOS provider?” If I'm partnered with all of them and Brent's partnered with them, let's all come together and develop a plan that's truly unique for your operation to make you successful.
You are talking about speed, which we get these loans done more quickly and then which also has an impact on cost. Jack, I let you dive in on this
Have you done some research on the improvement of cycle times in the loan throughput process and how significantly that's going to be impacted by this significant innovation?
At Freddie Mac, we have been spending a lot of time analyzing data on the success and failure points of these types of solutions. If you start to think about it, in November 2021, we completed a cost-to-originate study. We broke it down. It's available on the Freddie Mac Single-Family website, where you can review this document. It is an extremely powerful material. You take a partner like Brent and you put that into the mix and you say, “What is this doing for a lender?” What we can tell you is that lenders are going to vary in size. We did part of the study that a large lender and what's the definition of a large, medium, and small lender. What are the differences?
Those lenders who are leveraging these tools are originating at a cost that's three times less than their counterparts who were not. I want that to sink in because that is massive. You have your variations of it. Even at the top, you see folks that are blowing others out of the water. Where it's come is some people think they have to be technology savvy in order to leverage these things, and that's not true. You have so many technology solution providers on the market that they are providing this like FormFree. They are doing the hard work for you. They are integrated into the POS and LOS. How do we help you develop those best practices?
That's the difference between the tops and the bottoms. They have figured out how to implement and get to their audience, which is what they care about. A reduction of cost to their operation, a better customer experience, and a better loan officer experience. If you are trying to get new business in the door, one of the things that we care about at Freddie Mac is a greater quality loan, which can't get lost in all of this because that quality is as important as any other aspect then finally it's the creating access to credit, which is dynamic and is something we are heavily focused
You hit on an important aspect of this that sometimes gets lost in the reduction of cycle times and the cost to originate. That is this will tap down on manufacturing defects that limit exposure, seller servicers to Freddie Mac for future repurchases. Additionally, this will tap down on fraud in the area of income. When fraud shows itself, income and assets are one of the most prevalent places that you see fraud occurring in the market.
Brent says it all the time, “It’s a source data. How do we get the source data?” That's what allows all of this to work, are those two things. It's evident. One of the other things that we do at Freddie Mac within my group is work with lenders to help optimize. We have done cost analysis at the lender level with very specific lenders. You wouldn't believe the reduction of cost in that very specific defect space. We have the opportunity and resources. We are here to help and we can help lenders think about it much bigger we can help them develop their understanding of what their cost is, which is a baseline that starts to set everything in motion regarding why and how to adopt.
Brent, when it comes to this type of product and how it fits inside there, one of the questions came in, is this ready to go?
It's been ready. A little bit by building off of Kevin's comment about source data, truth data, and then how do you gain access to it and make it actionable for lenders and borrowers? That's our job. That's what we do. That's what I set out to do many years ago. This time that we are at is the same information. It's about understanding the data itself and where it comes from. We have truth versus trust. The source data represents the truth. I wrote an article about truth versus trust. It's truth in data. in order to become a non-fungible token and let's tangentially talk about crypto. In order for that to happen, source data. It's the source, the self-sovereignty of the data.
That's what all of this is about. It's where it started. The germination of what we are talking about started decades ago. Source data gives us greater purchase certainty. When we take the source data, analyze it. This is deep analytics and intelligence that goes into that simple, what we call a bank statement. What I recognize and what we have recognized with Freddy and working together is the wealth of information that resides in this new data pool. It's a universe of data that's never been looked at because it's been trapped in a paper confined.
Direct Deposit Data: Source data provides greater purchase certainty.
In the digital realm, because we are harvesting it digitally from the source, we know it's the book of record. It is the most accurate reflection of that borrower's asset information. Contained in that is a wealth of information to help that borrower achieve access to credit. What these massive year-long projects are leading to is understanding that data to the point where we say, “We can wrap and warrant this information.” We have looked at it, tested it, ensured the security of the information and we have created more security around it.
If you think about security in the realm of this particular announcement, income based on your asset data, we are looking at direct deposit. In that direct deposit, not only do we see the name of the employer, but we also see the amount of the net income that's coming in. We can see the recurring patterns of it up to a year. We are very able with intelligence, natural language processing, and machine learning. There are no biases whatsoever assessed in the data. The data are not altered, manipulated, or changed. It's factual data with business rules applied that enable us to make these discernments.
When you think about the level of this announcement, what this means is that it achieved a proof point that enabled one of the largest organizations in the world and purchasers of loans to make this discernment. It's huge. The only way you achieve these types of achievements and the only way we get to this point is through due diligence. It takes years of testing and collaborating with the information of lenders who have participated.
There are many lenders that should get kudos for having participated, but at the end of the day, it's ready to go. Why? It’s because we pull these accounts every single day by the tens of thousands. This is ready to go because it's a product you already know and love. You are using it. We are manipulating more information from it because of intelligence. All of it comes down to direct source data plus that straight-through processing.
These aren't paper reports that are floating through the ecosystem. These are not floating through the ether with customer information on them. This is a token. This token is being pushed through the system where Freddy receives a token of acknowledgment and then retrieves the data from FormFree in a direct API environment. It's the safest form of transfer of information that you can have.
This is what is exciting about these things. There is so much beneath the surface that you can't even see. It's not just, “Do an account check and get income improvement,” but all the other things that come with it, the time margin, the time savings, which increases margin. Now it's an instantaneous review of this information and then it's an approval that gives greater purchase certainty. Why? It’s because we understand the data.
There are a couple of keywords that you said were there it's available instantly. It's in here. You have it. You have access to it. It increases the whole trust and it reduces cost. Alice has got a question.
As we look at what's typically on a bank statement, that would be my net paycheck. I'm curious how you make that adjustment. Do you have visibility into the growth and the whole paycheck? How are you making the adjustment for the fact that it's a net amount and all our ratios need growth?
We are going to have various credit risk policy individuals working with lenders across the board. To give you some idea, when you come up with your calculation, leveraging a pay stub is through a series of steps. Through those series of steps as an X underwriter, I would have analyzed a pay stub, looked at multiples, tax returns, and all of the information that I would've had available to me, which will allow me to get to my summation of, “Here is the income that would be leveraged for qualification,” ability to pay and what does that look like?
Within Freddie Mac, we have various sources of information that are pulled from this direct deposit data. That allows us to look at many different things so that we can come up with a calculation much like an individual would in that case. Where we may not agree with a client or a lender and someone wants to push for greater usage of income, absolutely we can support existing methodologies of underwriting from that point on.
If I'm understanding, we will get the rep and warranty or the approval based on your backing in or grossing up based on algorithms and maybe some standard tax rate assumptions. From there, if we don't like that, we would then potentially say, “I got a tighter deal than that. I need to go with true gross income,” then I would pivot and get full documentation or get the pay stub and move on.
One of the big things that I would leave you with is I joined Freddie Mac many years ago. From that standpoint, I joined Freddie Mac because of the unbelievable positive momentum and culture that I could witness from my prior seat. When you feel that momentum, it comes with ideas. As you identified, we have the ability to work with lenders is to create a place where you can know that answer, not when the loan is underwriting, but rather when the loan is at the point of sale before you ask for the documentation.
We can tell you that at that immediate point so that you can determine, “I'm going to collect documentation from a borrower,” so you already know where you stand. That's extremely important. Things that we are going to continue to evolve is how we move things further up so that we can help you create that better borrower experience at all times to reduce the cycle time and create that better experience as a whole.
I love that. That's some real out-of-box thinking that most people wouldn't have thought of. Thank you for that.
Jack, I know you had a question down the same vein as Alice's question. Do you have any other aspects to the question?
My question focused on the natural deducts that you are going to see from a paycheck to a direct deposit, such as employee stock purchase programs and 401(k) contributions. That won't be reflected in the direct deposit. For both of those, the borrower could terminate to create more disposable income. I think that got answered when the comment was made that you can flip the gross.
The thing that I would say more than anything is innovation is here and it's in front of us. What we have to do now is an opportunity to help folks implement because the success is real. This is something that has been piloted and the pilot lenders leveraging this have had great success. We have seen so much information come through that pilot. Thanks to our regulator who we worked with to ensure that this was going to be something that is of value, a reduction of risk or costs, and created an opportunity to evaluate an access credit, unlike it's ever been done before. It is a goal that we were extremely excited to be able to hit here.
I keep coming back, especially with the speed and reduced cost component because we are in a margin-crushing narrowing business on that. Brent, I'm impressed at how you can seem to connect with and find these opportunities. Several people have asked about the passport and the token. If you could touch on that.
It's a passport. It's much like your access to a foreign nation or carries with you the consumer's financial DNA. What this is building out towards, and you are seeing these two worlds merge together. The mission that we carry is democratizing lending for all borrowers. That means understanding what that borrower's ability to pay is with capacity. Capacity effectively in the accounting world alludes to, “Can I afford this particular loan?”
What Passport is doing is effectively gathering all of this information on behalf of the consumer with their permission to understand asset income, employment identity, lien and judgments, and credit, assemble it into a knowledge index that effectively says, “I could effectively afford a $500,000 loan at this interest rate before I even enter into the loan process.” Where these two worlds merge and converge is by delivering that data to the consumer prior to even entering the loan process. That's a passport.
Having Freddie Mac be able to receive that data in a token form, that's the straight-through processing that is the effective non-fungible token flowing into the downstream users of that data. With permission from the borrower to share that information with a lender, the lender then shares that information with Freddie Mac and that is the flow. That's what we call straight-through processing. That effectively gives you greater purchase certainty.
It's all about risk. The way I break this down is passport is it gives transparency to the consumer and to the borrower. I can know who I am and what I'm capable of. The lender can know who I am because we are strangers passing in the night. Ultimately, who's taking all the risk? Lenders take assume the risk for a short period of time until they make their best efforts and then sell that loan.
[bctt tweet="A passport basically gives transparency to the consumer and the borrower." via="no"]
Freddie Mac takes a risk by virtue of understanding, “I'm purchasing these loans. They meet the guidelines.” We are all helping each other do the same thing. It's a risk reduction and creating a more efficient market that reduces the cost and creates a much more seamless experience for everybody. It's a better borrower experience. For me, the borrower, I want to go through a simple process using my digital data and then effectively achieving home ownership without biases.
I'm a renter. Let's say, I can afford a loan of upward to $1,500 mortgage payments a month. I'm paying $2,000 in rent. All these things start to make sense. What we are is exposing with intelligence with hard facts. This is factual information. There's no gray area and there are no biases associated with the data. Passport is effectively harvesting this information with the consumer's permission. Everything's permission. We are not reselling the data. We are not a marketing machine. We are not doing that. We are here purposely to help borrowers get into home ownership.
Jack, Do you have any other wrap-up questions?
From a process engineering standpoint, the verification determination of income during the underwriting component of the loan throughput process from a time activity standpoint is probably the longest poll in the tech. I can see where this truthful data is consumed in an underwriting bot. We take something that was once the longest poll and we can make it one of the shorter polls in the throughput process, saving time and money, and ultimately reducing the proclivity that a significant or material error is created in the origination process. Ergo reducing risk. It's a win.
It is an exciting time in the history of our industry. These are unprecedented times in the world and we see a lot going on, both good and bad. With respect to our industry, this is groundbreaking. I appreciate the work with Kevin and his team. There are hundreds of people that we should be thanking. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for calling attention to it and giving us this time.
Direct Deposit Data: Today is an exciting time in the history of real estate. These are unprecedented times in the world, and we see a lot going on, both good and bad.Kevin and Brent, I compliment you both on working together. Kevin, we want to get to know you. You do a great job at this partnership and I compliment you both for this kind of innovation bringing into. It's groundbreaking. Brent, you said it so well. Changing our industry forever for the better. I appreciate it. Have a great week, everybody. I appreciate you both being here.Next episode we have got Chris Zingo from Finastra, the largest FinTech company in the world. We are privileged to have him as a sponsor. He is one of our anchor sponsors for many years. We are thrilled to have them there. We are going to be talking with Chris about what he's seeing going on. I'm joining the Finastra team down in San Antonio for the Independent Community Bankers Association, ICBA’s lending conference that's going on down there. We will look forward to seeing you there. We are grateful for Finastra.A special thank you to all of our sponsors, Finastra, Lenders One, Mobility MMI, Modex, the MBA, Knowledge Coop, The Mortgage Cooperative, Snapdocs, SuccessKit, Lender Toolkit, PennyMac, Total Expert, and FormFree. We are so grateful to you, FormFree, and all the innovation you bring into our industry. Have a great week, everybody. I’m looking forward to seeing you back here next episode.
