In this episode of our podcast, “The Dawn of AI in Mortgage: Faster, Smarter, and More Affordable Loans,” we explore how AI is revolutionizing the mortgage industry and eliminating inefficiencies that have plagued traditional lending processes. Joined by Pavan Agarwal and John Brumund, we dive into real success stories, showcasing how Angel AI is enabling faster approvals, reducing costs, and breaking down barriers for homebuyers. Plus, we discuss global market trends, insights from Davos, and the transformative potential of AI and blockchain in capital markets. Tune in for an eye-opening conversation about the next era of mortgage lending!
[David] Listeners, we’re back with another what’s happening in the world of tech and all other things related to mortgage. We’ve got Pavan here with us and also joining him today is John Brumund. I’m looking forward to having you, John, share a story in just a minute about the developments that are happening and Pavan shared with me a video testimony. I want to get into that in just a minute, but Pavan, you have been traversing the world. You’ve been going around in this podcast today, I want to get your perspective and what you’re seeing on a global basis, political global events that are going on and then what are you seeing? There’s some exciting news We’re going to get into this a little bit later after we talk to John About some of the developments that are happening with other and other foreign investors want to get into our bond markets, into our investing in mortgage backed securities and creating even some new products. So very exciting content today, listeners, you want to stay tuned all the way through, but let’s get started. John, good to have you with us. And I want to talk about this. Pavan sent me a video while I was flying home this week from Orlando, I was at a conference over there. And it told the story of a guy who started using angel AI and he went on and on. If you can, by the way, listeners, But John, tell us about this individual and the story.
[John] Yeah, it was interesting. It was a fun day. We spent a day at a really big broker shop out in Orange County and we walked around the day and met a lot of people and interestingly, a lot of the people that we talked to had been using Angel AI and a lot of them were using it for tax returns and for bank statements and all the things that we allow people to do in the system. So you can upload documents and it’ll analyze your tax returns and then we went to dinner and I was talking to Daniel who’s the owner, one of the owners of West cap and Amir walked over to me and goes, Oh my gosh, man. He goes, I love this system. It’s amazing and he started telling me this story about how he closed a five 24 credit score in three weeks and our pricing and all the things that were amazing. He was, I, he goes, I just can’t believe I love this company. I love this technology. And we ended up. I said, Hey, would you mind if I grabbed a recording of that? Because I wish somebody would have recorded what you just said to me. It was amazing. It was so powerful and he was so gracious. He went out and he said, of course, let’s do this, and so we did that.
[David ]And there was more stories like that. So there were several aspects of the story. First of all, because of the cost savings that you guys at Sunwest are able to do as a result of implementing and using angel AI. You’re able to now go significantly under, apply that cost savings to your pricing. Talk about that because you offered, if I saw it, heard him you were three quarters of a point under everyone else. Yeah, absolutely. Our manufacturing cost is so low that we’re able to pass that savings on to our broker partners. And especially on the government business, and he was, I think it was an FHM loan that he was talking about. And so our pricing is significantly lower due to the fact that we have Angel AI and our manufacturing costs are so low. That was just one aspect, like you said, of the conversation, but it was And then it also talked about how he was able to get this done so much more quickly. Yep. And talk a little bit about that. He was, he, this was unsolicited. That’s what I love. I love these organic, unsolicited testimonies. And it’s a great way to start off when we’re talking with Pavan here in just a minute about what he’s created, John.
[John] Yeah, it was. That was the best part of it, right? He walked up to me and said, man, I just love this. I had never met him. It was the first time I ever met Amir. He’s a great guy and he was just pumped. We’re really starting to build a deep relationship with that company because of just angel AI, but he was extremely happy. He was going to be giving us a lot more of those loans and a lot more business. It was, the aspects that he was excited about were the speed, the ease of use, the pricing and the communication. We, not only do we have all this technology, we have communication, we have good, we have a good culture. We’ve got a good. Just overall package and that was what he was most excited about.
[David] John, kudos for whipping out your camera because I’m wanting more of those I want to share with our audience. A lot of people don’t realize, I was with a group of mortgage lenders over the, I was at that with them at the IMB conference, the independent mortgage bankers conference here in Austin on Monday and Tuesday and then I flew out to Florida and I was talking, I belong to a mastermind group, all mortgage bankers and all technology folks and they’re going, yeah, but there’s no one really has anything out there that’s AI, that’s end to end, that’s really working. And I chuckled. I go, you guys, I keep telling you, you got to check out Angel AI because it’s there. So I’m so grateful that you recorded that testimony. Thanks, John. I appreciate it.
[John] Yeah, absolutely. I was very thankful that he did it. He nailed it. That was one. That was a one. That was a one take. It was a one take. Yeah. Yeah. And here, this is in a, if you don’t mind I’ll give you a little insight into my meeting that day. it was an all day event deal, right? For us, everybody’s using Angel ai and I think that the reason that what you heard is, we don’t know who has an all in solution for AI. I hear that too, and I’m like, guys, you got girls, guys. I have that. We have that. It’s, it such a paradigm shift from the traditional way of doing business. Everyone’s used to using an LOS and using a point of sale and all the, all of those traditional, that’s what everybody in the industry is familiar with. And so when you show them Angel AI it’s like a mind blowing experience for them and it’s really it’s just people. Understanding that things are changing and you can do things a different way and getting them used to it and that’s big, that’s where we’re at today.
[David] I think it is, it’s an absolute game changer and I’m so excited about what it’s built, but it’s overcoming doubt and disbelief. Because most people don’t realize Pavan’s been working on this for 24 plus years. And so it’s not a flash of pan news, something new. It’s just been evolving and evolving. So John, if for those that are listening to this and want to get a hold of you, what’s the best way for our listeners to reach out to you and listeners. I do encourage you to do that. John he is a mortgage professional. You’ve been in the mortgage industry. How many years, John?
[John] 32. I think. 32. Yeah. 33 years.
[David] So you’ve done a few loans. You know exactly. So you’re not like just one of the quote unquote inexperienced salespeople that are out there. Mortgages end to end extremely well. So how can people reach you, John?
[John] My cell phone is the best way always to reach me. My cell phone is (951) 219-8362. Yeah, my email is also obviously, it’s another option, john.brumund@swmc.com. Okay, john dot, and it’s B R U M U N D @ swmc.com. All right. I have one more story, if you don’t mind.
[David] Yeah, please. I can’t get enough of these stories.
[John] Okay. My sister in law recently lost her husband, and I, and that’s not, Really relevant to the, no. Sorry to hear that though. The conversation. I wasn’t looking for that but she decided she needed to buy a house for her and her kids. And I sent her the Angel AI link to go online and keep in mind, like my time’s spent primarily trying to grow production. I don’t do a lot of loans, so I sent her the angel.
[David] You’re growing the wholesale per side of the business?
[John] The broker business. Wholesale. Yeah, wholesale and retail. We, do a little bit of and correspondent. Yeah. And anyway, I sent her my Angel AI link and I said, Hey, Lacey, why don’t you go on and try this out and see what you can do. And so she did, she got her loan pre approved all by herself. We got a pre approval on a software. Love it. Her, by the way, I won’t share her financial details, but it’s, it’s a challenging situation, right? So she goes on, gets her own loan pre approved and then called me last Saturday and said, I’m at an open house and I’m going to make an offer on this house. Oh, man. And so I said, Oh, okay. I was a little bit taken aback just because I wasn’t ready.
[David] She did it all herself. She’s a consumer with no mortgage experience.
[John] Zero. Totally excited. She’s I’m going to buy a house right now. The agent’s here. You want to talk to her? And I said okay, I’ll talk to her. So I talked to the agent. This is a true story. And it was last weekend. And and I told her about me and about Angel AI and about SunWest and she was a little skeptical okay, so this is Saturday by Sunday night, she had sent me the offer that the agent sent me the purchase contract, the, all of the contacts for the loan. I’ve only used Angel AI on this entire transaction, just to be clear, that’s a, that’s an important piece of this message, but I was watching the football games on Sunday, talking to my mom, who was here, and some family members who were here on my cell phone, copying and pasting the purchase contract and uploading things from my phone to the loan in Angel AI and I will just skip to the fun part. That loan’s ready for docs. That was ready for docs yesterday. That’s a one week. Now we’ve got a couple of things. One week. Yeah. The, pending the appraisal, of course, that’s being done right now as we speak. That’s not something we can control but we as a company are ready for docs in a week and the agent, this is the best part. The agent called me and yesterday I had a meeting with her. She gave me three more clients. I’ve never met this agent in my life. She doesn’t know anything about me, doesn’t know what I do, doesn’t care. She gave me three more clients and by the way, they’re all Spanish speaking clients and SunWest offers bilingual support. So we got somebody that speaks Spanish on the phone and we were able to help her out. It’s just an amazing story. I’m so excited about, I feel like a little kid again.
[David] John, I’ve been doing this for 51 years, and you’ve been doing it for 33 now. So you sit and look at, it’s fun to get excited about something again, John. Because we’ve been doing the same thing the same way for so long, it’s just it wears you out a little bit, especially when we get fatigued from the process. This is a new, we’re in a new deal. And and I can hear Pavan’s dogs in the background saying, Hey, it’s time to get the boss on. Let’s get the, come on, you’re talking to John. Get the boss on. John, thanks so much for joining us again. Give us your cell phone and your email one more time if you could do so quickly. You got cell phone (951) 219-8362. Email is john.brumund@swmc.com. Very good. John, thanks so much to just coming in impromptu on this.
[Pavan] John, before you go, you said you were watching football. How did the Cowboys do?
[John] Oh, they’ve been out of it for a long time, buddy.
[David] Oh, that’s a little rough. That’s a little rough. Yeah, it was. That’s rough, Pavan. Come on, buddy. Yeah. I got it. Ha. Ron, LaVance, that’s a humor.
[David] That’s great. Who are you pulling for in the Super Bowl? That’s a tough question.
[John] I honestly don’t, I don’t care. Yeah. No, I just hope for a good game. I just hope it’s a good game. It’ll be a, it should be a good game.
[David] It’ll be a good game at very least. Yeah. Pavan is changing history and I think we’re gonna align, Pavan, I love the innovation that you’ve created. This is one of the things, I was at the IMB conference, and there is an overall optimism returning to the markets, that you can sense there, but it’s, nothing has really changed. So it’s more as a result of this election, that there’s more hope coming in. So we have a political environment that’s dramatically changed, and we also have now, with what you’ve created, a real chance to reduce costs. Slash cost the average cost to produce a mortgage loan sum between 000 and the Morgan industry, 40 percent 60 percent of that goes to come commission. 40 percent then goes towards operational costs. And that’s still 5,000 plus for the average lender. Your cost is a small percentage of that. Small percentage. Can you, would you mind sharing what your cost is to originate operationally on a wholesale basis?
[Pavan] Yeah every additional loan we do is only cost like 150.
[David] 150 versus 5, 000.
[Pavan] Then, and on top of that, obviously you gotta add in things like the cost for work number and, banks.
[David] Oh yeah, you’re gonna have your, a third party operational cost. Yeah, but we pick that up easily. In the fees. So it’s really the actual cost is only like 150 bucks. Yeah. And then with the underwriting that’s in there, how you go about it, you take out fair lending issues. You take out all the issues that are so prevalent that the biases that are in there, even though people say they’re not biased, you’ve taken all that. We talked about that before in previous podcasts or listeners. I encourage you to go back and listen to that. I want to pivot over. Pavan to start talking about all things that are changing. We touched on briefly the political environment. You just read in Yahoo Finance about Chopra being fired. I just read it was Taylor sent out an information today that, or an email showing his resignation letter.
[Pavan] I didn’t know, I thought he was just ending it, but so he got fired is what you read in the headline. Who knows what’s the real news, right? These days. But yeah, there was a Yahoo finance article I just read. That’s the headline is Trump fires director of the CFPB. That’s the headline. And I quickly read through the article. You take news with a grain of salt, because the other thing interesting that the commentator said, which made no sense at all, just total gaslighting the American people. And she credits the run up in real estate and home equity, I think Americans were so lucky under this, under the CFPB director because home values, look how much home values have increased. I was like, come on. Just, I’m not going to say whether I was for or against Chopra, I’m not whether I’m for or against the CFPB or Trump’s actions, But that’s just the mainstream media just outright lying to our faces by saying that credit by crediting home price run up and the growth in home equity of Americans to the CFPB. It doesn’t work that way. It doesn’t work that way.
[David] Anyone who’s in the industry knows that and it is gaslighting and it’s just disingenuous. So anyway, yeah, that, that is for sure. With him out, what do you, what are you anticipating? We’re seeing, I think part of the thing, first of all, it’s interesting that Chopra was hired by Trump initially was appointed by Trump and then worked under the Biden administration. He’s out. I think this speaks more to just how committed Trump is to making radical changes this time in everything. And so let’s start with this part. How do you anticipate the changes that he’s making the Trump’s executive orders are being put in effect for the mortgage industry?
[Pavan] If you take his statements at face value, and that’s all we have to go by, and he’s, he and Elon Musk have said they’re going to get rid of the CFPB and I put out a commentary on this earlier. I’m actually not. in favor of getting rid of the CFPB because all that will do is that the states will come out will create a patchwork of regulations that will go way beyond the CFPB. And we’ve gone through CFPB audits before and they’re actually very reasonable people to work with and by reason means they’re smart, you know what they’re doing. So it’s the kind of thing is the devil, Versus, the devil you don’t, right?
[David] And I was, it was so interesting about that. I was talking to Coop at the MBA at the IMB conference who works with the states and they’re anticipating a re, a growth of regulation from within at the state level. Which is just going to make it so difficult when you’re a multi state lender to have to meet all these things. You’d rather have just one agency, CFPB. To be able to go to and have them be the lead, but unfortunately, that’s not going to be the case.
[Pavan] Yeah, he could solve it through, I’m, I don’t know, I’m not an expert in constitutional law but remember the 10th amendment says that the federal government states have the rights to whatever that the federal government doesn’t take for itself. So through either a congressional law or an executive order, he could say, the states cannot do X, Y, Z.
[David] Yes, that’s true, yeah.
[Pavan] And that would then stop this spiral of regulation at the state level. But, I don’t know if that’s possible by executive order.
[David] I don’t know that, he’s already getting challenged on one of the executive orders by a was it a Vermont judge that put a stay on the funding cutting a funding cutting.
[Pavan] Yes. The, there was two executive orders on that one, and then on the birthright citizenship. Yeah, it was the Massachusetts judge who put a stay on both, but. But both of those I, if I’m in his position I would have expected both of those to be challenged to have to receive a stay by a lower court and both executive orders were designed to go to the Supreme Court.
[David] Yeah. I think the point of it, we’re having unprecedented number of executive orders that are getting carried out as we’re seeing with the deportations that are happening underway in a very high, highly published so we’re gonna see a lot more change. But I think what’s also interesting though so let’s come back and look at, again, the impact of these policies on the mortgage industry. Your opinion.
[Pavan] That’s to be seen. Let’s see if he’s actually able to cut the deficit, right? If he’s actually able to at least stop the growth of the debt. Okay, that’s a tall order. That means you gotta cut two trillion dollars out of the budget in order to get there. So if he’s either, either you cut 2 trillion or you grow increased revenue by 2 trillion, one of the two has got to happen. Yep. Now it’s going to be a both. It’s going to be a both thing. Yeah. He just collected 1 trillion from Saudi Arabia, which is hilarious, right? Yes. It’s a shakedown, that’s total gangster move, right? Yeah. We agreed to 600 million. He goes in world economic forums and says, Oh, let’s make that a trillion dollars, right? That’s 250 billion a year, right? It’s something like, it’s something like, 50 million a day or something or whatever. Some crazy numb out 50 million an hour or something. They have to pay. So there’s, so he’s tackling the revenue side of the equation, right and that move with Saudi Arabia, what it does, it also, it ensures it locks Saudi Arabia down to the dollar. Because remember a year ago Saudi Arabia was flirting with China and talking about, to talk about oil trade and yuan, right? And so that was a very expensive meeting because it just cost them a trillion dollars over here.
[David] I smiled at that. I just love the hubris that Trump is doing. Cause it’s just, he can get more done by threatening a tariff than any, than anyone else has done in all the political acts of it. I want to but focusing on back on the state complexity that this brings, this is, and now this is a shameless plug for Angel AI, because one of the things that you are able to do so effectively with angel AI is low. It doesn’t matter what state, how complex it is. You get that in angel AI and you can be highly confident that you’re doing a compliant loan at any state that in which you’re doing business, speak how you’ve done that. Pavan. Yeah, that’s correct.
[Pavan] Not just highly confident. There’s a warranty that goes with it, right? I know that’s, I was hoping you’re gonna bring that up. Yeah. So if angel AI tells a consumer like John was just talking about his sister in law. And very complex deal. She’s talking to Angela and it’s telling her, okay, you have an approval, right? if Angela AI got it wrong, I will honor that approval. It’s amazing. That means that means I’ll end up with, I would have ended up with a loan on my balance sheet as scratch and debt. Yeah. I’m more than willing and happy to take that risk. The risk is almost zero and in the last, I would say in the last almost 36 months has not happened.
[David] Yeah. Yeah. Talk about how are you doing the, it’s, that’s a great confidence thing, but literally get down a little bit into the weeds. How have, I want people to hear a little bit of the how, because we’re trying to overcome this doubt and disbelief that you, your system could do that. Most people go, I don’t buy it. I don’t believe you. I get that a lot. And they said, look, we trust you. We know you to be a credible guy, but you you’re drinking some Kool Aid right now, looking and this angel, accolade. And I go on, but it works. It really does. Yeah.
[Pavan] That’s the reason why it’s an open platform. That’s why we leave it out there. And if it was a closed platform, I could see that if there was a paywall in front of it, or you had to sign a contract to use it. But it’s a complete open platform. So anybody who doubts to go and try it out for yourself, and we have brokers doing all the time. First time brokers never, says I don’t believe it. They’ll go drop in income documents, tax returns, whatever. And then they’ll get the answers and the analysis back like right away. And they’re blown away. And that’s just the power of the technology. How we did it. Remember we rolled this out in 2018, like it was the end of 2018 and that we did the. First loan through it end to end. And we’ve been building it for like decades. Literally 20 plus years. Actually 30 years. Because the I talked about this one of our prior podcasts, right? The core algorithm is what makes it all work is the, is this algorithm I designed in the nineties, right? Which, which identity patent. So now remains a trade secret of vectors of how vectors. By changing one vector, you propagate through the vector space, and you adjust everything else, right? And that’s the core fundamentals of a neural net. Is you change a value here, and then you have to propagate through the network. But I create this algorithm where it does that almost instantaneously, right? And that’s the core engine. And that’s why the whole engine can’t, you can change something. Like a loan amount or you could change whatever, down payment or income qualifying or whatever. And you can have all this stuff change at the same time. And they’re so complex, like other systems, they have to lock everything down. Lock everyone else out of it. They’ll do one change at a time because each of those changes are like this complex vectors in this hundred dimensional vector space and if you change, you can change them all at the same time, and it would just automatically find the best fit of that, of the fabric in that space, right? And that’s the center of the algorithm. So unless you know how to do that, you will never get an AI on mortgages or finance to ever work properly.
[David] We just saw a publication or a press release come out by one of the leading mortgage lenders saying. He’s investing a hundred million dollars into AI and you are obviously worrying some of the biggest lenders out there when they have to put out these kind of press releases and I chuckle at it because you’ve been at this for now you say 30 years I think I know for 24 years and you are I mean they don’t understand the complexity they don’t have these algorithms that you’re talking about there the core engine that you’ve created and I wish them all well. We need more competition and we’re all, we always welcome it, but it’s just not, it’s just, it’s a press release. It’s so full of hot air. Not to be disparaging, but anyway.
[Pavan] I suspect he got the 100 million, 100 million number from me as well, because that’s the number I’ve been, I was asked in a couple of conferences, roughly how much did you spend on this?
And I guesstimate about 100 million I spent over the last two decades. Yeah. I’m building this. So I put that number out there and then he puts out a press release that’s equivalent. So that’s interesting.
[David] That tells me that you got some lenders out there that are going, we better speak up and do we, or else we’re going to lose market share. So anyway kudos to you. Let’s talk about some of the things you’re seeing. You’re traveling, you were just in Davos. How did that go? How was that trip?
[Pavan] That was just fantastic. Just amazing networking. We did a lot of family offices that was some of the original investors with when you chase family offices, explain to our listeners.
[David] What do you mean by that? I know what that means.
[Pavan] The offices are like high net worth. Basically high net worth families. And then they have a, they created what they call a family office, which is their investment arm. They invest, it could be the biggest producer of whatever widget, and they have a lot of, and they’ve always generations. They’ve had a lot of money and now they create an investment. Now they make more money investing their money than they do. And actually whatever the core business was that made a money. Yeah. All right. So for example we, I met with the original first round investors in XAI. Super excited. Their money like tripled or whatever. And, six months. So those are the kind of people we’re meeting. And everyone’s super really like interested in what we’re doing because the stuff that we’re doing with Angel AI is things that NVIDIA and OpenAI is talking about. That maybe we’ll be ready in another 12, 24 months and we have it ready today and that’s the magic, when we talk about why we’re doing it and other people aren’t doing it other people have built AI for the purpose of trying to create artificial general intelligence, right? Like a human mimicking AI. Okay. And so those AIs have natural limitations. They’re not designed to solve these kinds of specific problems. Okay, so one of the things that LLMs do, large language models, things like ChatGPT or Facebook Llama, or even DeepSeek, is they hallucinate. That means they’ll make up stuff. Cause they’re just guessing at the next word. So you can’t make up a loan approval, right? You can’t make up conditions. You can say, David Lykken had, wants a loan for a million dollars. He makes he works three jobs and makes, 200,000 a month. What are the conditions you can’t just have to just start making up conditions. You could try that chat GPT. It’ll probably create a bunch of conditions for you. Some of them make sense. Some of them won’t make sense. You can’t give chat GPT a paycheck and say what’s the qualifying income on this. It’s not going to understand that. That’s a whole different kind of thing. And the whole premise of how Angel AI works, that the model is our own foundational model. We’re not using one of the existing models. It’s a custom neural net from this, from Bill from Scratch and we have over 70 patents on this thing, right? It’s, so it’s not Seven, seven, zero. Seven, zero, right? Seven, seven awarded and 60, almost 70 pending. And very close to being awarded in the final stages. So this is, it’s not like something that someone’s going to be able to easily replicate. Maybe the Chinese will hack in and steal it. We’ll see. Because that’s what the latest news is that they built DeepSeek by stealing the output of OpenAI. They’re famous for reverse engineering. We’ll see.
[David] Yeah, we’ll see. Let’s talk about that because we watched when the NVIDIA stock just dive, take a dive this week on the announcement of China coming out. We also saw DeepSeek and now we just saw a headline come out either today or yesterday saying any government employees that are working on government projects cannot use any open source AI. What are the risks or what are they trying to make sure it doesn’t happen? Is it that hallucination factor that they’re concerned about?
[Pavan] I think the government memo was they can’t use a, they can’t use DeepSeek or a foreign AI. Oh, is that a foreign AI? Okay. That’s what I thought it said, but I’ll have to double check that. Yeah yeah.
[David] There’s it’s hallucination. I’m one of the ones that that I use as proximity. And I got challenged at one of the conferences I spoke at. In fact, it was the one that you invited me to, you and I were going to speak at the gala up in the new England. It was Brian Levy who said, Dave, I’ve used that in it, hallucinated and created things that that should not have been said So he gave a good warning about. Some of this and we need to be, we need to be looking at, which is encouraging because it means that humans are still going to be very much in control of this. What’s getting process of put out there yet?
[Pavan] And look, we figured it out, right? We figured out how to get AI to not hallucinate and to do very complex algorithmic work, right? To read documents and to figure out what the data means and do the calculations and so forth. We figured out we set it up the structure. It works. It’s been working for years. Okay. So other people figure out the same thing. They obviously won’t be able to do the way we do it because without stepping on our patents, but that they’ll, there’s always more than one way to skin a cat. We’re not delusional that no one else is going to figure this out. They will figure it out. I just don’t think it will be. It won’t be, it’ll be people out of the tech industry. I don’t think it’s going to be people out of the mortgage industry.
[David] Yeah. So a lot of people listening to this and going back to your comment that you met with the, some of the families that are the family offices that are looking to make investments, you’ve already paid for this. And what is the reason, if you won’t mind me asking, you’re wanting to, or considering having these conversations with someone investing in angel AI.
[Pavan] It’s all exploratory. There’s nothing, there’s not a need driving it.
[David] And that’s the most important part. You own this free and clear. 100%. It’s completely free and clear. No debt. No, nothing. No PE money involved in that. That’s such an important. Yeah. No venture capital money.
[Pavan] And we’re right now in a global expansion. So there’s a and that does take a lot of partners to make that happen. Sometimes you’ll bring in a partner just to bring in the network, not so much for the money. Okay. So we’re in conversations with banks in Saudi Arabia right now with the banks in UAE we, I just came back from Japan and locked up a really major deal in Japan.
[David] Yeah, I want, that’s where I was gonna go. I just talk about that deal because this. Starts getting everyone’s focused. Are they going to privatize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac now? Are that going to happen? And we all get biopically focused that is the only solution that ever will be. Talk about the new solution. Another solution that you’re going to be hopefully bringing to them, to the capital markets.
[Pavan] Yes. And this is what gets the family offices and the broader investment community. So excited about angel is that it delivers on the promise. It delivers the promise of AI and. And the promise of blockchain all together in one package. Okay if you think about how the capital markets work, is you have the guys with money, whether it’s insurance companies family investors or, or individual people, right? and then they have to go, so they have money, they’re going to put it into an investment vehicle or investment fund, right? and then that investment fund is going to work with reit, is going to invest in a REIT, who’s then going to work with mortgage bankers or, and banks to source product and so forth. So it, it washes through four or five hands, right? To finally get to the source where that money’s going to get deployed in is a homeowner buying a house. So that money, so typically that money in Japan coming from that insurance company is going to go through through five hands before it goes to the homeowner that buys the homeowner. Buys that non QM, right? Buys that house, right? And the reason it goes through so many layers and then you got rating agencies involved and all this kind of stuff in the middle. The reason it goes through so many layers is because the person with the money who wants to invest it, and he knows the risk profile of the U S dollar. He knows the risk profile of a U S mortgage. He’s yeah, I want that risk. And I want that yield. Okay. So he knows what he wants, but he doesn’t have any way of controlling it. So he has to go through all these layers. Okay, but what we said, what we offered him, we gave them, it says, look, you just plug into Angel ai. Okay, so you have a million dollars to invest. You tell Angel. ai, I’ve got a million dollars. This is the product I want to invest in. I want it to go into, I want this product to go into Mainstream America. And I want to invest it in a working class family in America who’s going to buy their first home. I want a credit score over 720 and I want LTV below 80 percent of whatever it is that you want, whatever profile you want. Okay. You just tell the AI and the AI will source and deliver to that. So you, your money goes straight to that person, right? So what that means is better yield for the investor. Better, greater transparency. They know exactly where their money is going. Okay. And better, better interest rates, lower cost for the homeowner. It’s literally the AI and the blockchain backbone can literally connect a homeowner on Main Street USA with anybody in the world who’s got money to invest in him. It creates this marketplace that never existed before.
[David] That starts getting exciting because you take out all the people that had their hands out or were involved in the process. You literally take them all out. Yeah,
[Pavan] I think Nomura is going to have a hit on me soon. Ha.
[David] I don’t think so. I hope not. But everyone is looking for innovation. This administration is looking for innovation. Vivek, you know him personally, and have been involved with him, and he’s with Doge, I mean he has been with Doge, I think he’s now going off and doing some other things, he had pulled in another direction, but, we need this kind of innovation in our industry, bringing new capital markets, and what you’re doing with the money out of Japan is, how much money are we talking about, is it a little drop in the bucket, or is it significant?
[Pavan] No, the first round is 100 million dollars of equity. And then, and by the end of the year, it’ll probably grow to a billion dollars
[David] To a billion. Yeah. All right. So that’s, and that’s unlevered. So this is, this will be a, this will be a huge fund. Wow. What are some of the other developments that you’re seeing out there? One of the things listeners, Pavan is sending me texts almost daily, multiple times throughout the day. Look at this video. Look at that. There’s so much going on in science just generally. So much new knowledge that are you’re talking about holograms. You sent me one of the holograms this morning. I watched it. It was like, Oh my gosh, it’s just reinventing everything about we were rethinking and thinking differently about virtually everything. whether it be economics, it’s whether it’s physics or every aspect of science, give us, as we wrap this up, give us some of the other things that you’re really interested
[Pavan] One of the things I’m really excited about, I think there’ll be a cure for cancer just right around the corner. Wow. The breakthroughs now, especially with AI, doing protein modeling, and all that is just around the corner. In fact Bill Gates and Larry Ellison were talking about using AI to generate vaccines to actually immunize you against cancer. The Russians came out with the cure for cancer, they claiming.
[David] We’ll see. We’ll see what happens. I’m sorry if Bill Gates is behind it, I’m not sticking anything, a needle into my arm with anything that Gates is behind. I see what he did with Moderna and all the others and not a fan of him.
[Pavan] I’m not a fan of him either. We’ll see if his officially if his name comes out on the Epstein list.
[David] Yeah, exactly right. There’s a lot of things coming out that, that are going to be popping about blowing a lot of people’s mind and what we understood and by the way, that’s not a rumor. That’s his own ex wife screaming at him about that. So yeah.
[Pavan] So, I just got back from Davos is really interesting. I think, from a political front. But the mood was very surreal almost because most of the big shots at Davos were tied to the old regime, right? Tied to the left of center culture. So there was a certain mood there that there was like, okay, this is the new reality. There was an acceptance of the new reality of the the Trump world order. So that was, it was, that was really interesting and also I was in it.
[David] That was really evident there. So it was not, there’s still not the old mindset that, that has gone, you’re saying? Yeah. I think the. Or changing.
[Pavan] I think the, I think no, I think they’ve accepted, okay.
[David] It was. Accepted. One thing is you can accept that. Another thing is embrace it. You know what I mean?
[Pavan] We’ll see, I think, this, we’re just. In the first, not even in the first inning of the of this government. Yeah. I’m sure there’s going to be resistance. Yeah. In different ways. But the mood of Davos is the world has changed. Let’s go. It’s let’s just accept reality and let’s try to make money on this new structure. So that’s the general mood. What actually happens we’ll see. And I was on a panel and I posted this video. It was the former ambassador to Switzerland was on the panel. It was actually the previous about who was appointed by Trump. Great guy. It was just really deep insightful. But one of the things he said that really stood out, this is and you can go back and watch that on my LinkedIn channel. He said that, there was a question about, where’s the growth and where do you see growth in the world? Where do you see, what are the future frontiers, right? And then, so he said, Oh, Africa is a continent of the future. And which I agree with it, Africa is like bigger than North America and Europe and Russia.
[David] It’s been so exploited. Yes, exactly right.
[Pavan] Yeah, and it was funny because, he talked about how there’s so much potential there. And, but he defined potential in Africa as the, as a source of raw materials and minerals and so forth. And I was like, okay. And then right after him there was a gentleman who spoke who was a senior diplomat from Africa. He basically, he went up there and in a very nice way, told the ambassador no, no man unique. You ain’t coming to Africa to exploit our minerals. Yeah. We’re looking for a partnership. We’re going to do this together. This isn’t colonial times anymore. We’re, we’ve got to all build the world together. So that was interesting. One of the things that we presented at the key thing that we present the world economic forum at multiple sessions. And one of the sessions I spoke at, we had something like 40,000 people across Europe watching this session. I was being live streamed. And what I explained was if you look at the World has gone through, through a couple of different stages and I don’t know if you’ve heard the term Web3, we’re now in the Web3 economy, which is blockchain. Like web two was a single sign on with Google and Facebook controlling everything and Web one was, Netscape in the early nineties with just basic stuff. Okay. So we’re in Web3 for commerce and globally integration from technology perspective. But what I’m doing with Angel AI is we’re on globalization 3.0, right? So let’s talk about what globalization 3.0. Globalization 1.0 was the awful results of slavery and colonization across the world and create just all that it was spread disease and poverty everywhere. Globalization 2.0 was a little better. It was more of a trade, but it was a one sided trade where essentially a few mega corporations exploited, cheap labor resources across the world and that’s globalization 2.0 and that hurt people on both hurt the working the common man on both sides of that trade, right? Whether you’re Whether they’re the factory worker in the middle, midwestern America or the factory worker in, in China or wherever else, right? Everyone’s being exploited, right? But a few corporations are winning. Okay, so now we’re at globalization 3.0, which I think is really the solution, in which is blockchain based economy, which is AI based economy, where everyone, all of us, have direct access to trade with anybody else in the world. So that’s what blockchain does. It lets a small producer, right? Whether it’s the, whether it’s the small shop in Erie, Indiana to a small shop to a village in Africa whatever product they’re producing, they can trade. They can take it to market. They can take it to market globally. And they’re twins. And your twin. Which is what we’re, we’ll be officially launching on March 14th. Your twin can communicate in any language to any market anywhere in the world. And sell your product and explain your product. So those are like the big things that are happening and the whole notion of markets, of corporations. I think we’re going From centralization Web 2.0 centralization, you had a couple of big companies that owned your data, that today own your data, that own your identity, right? And let’s destroy that and let you own it.
[David] Yeah, that gets back to the tokens, where you own it in a token. Yes,
[Pavan] you own it in a token, you own it in a secure wallet. You own a secure wallet and it’s your twin that’s owned and powered and controlled by you. And that’s what we’re launching on March 14th. It’s the AngelTwin project and the AngelTwin token. It’s already full. But, David, any of your special listeners, you can extend the invitation to, you already have the invitation link. I do.
[David] Yeah, I’ll be there. I’m so looking forward to it. Yes. The angel twin. You said at one of the conferences where we were to gather at and you were speaking, you said, imagine you taking more applications than you ever dreamt of and you’re on the beach in Puerto Rico or your favorite beach wherever. Enjoying your own private time and it’s your angel twin that is actually out there doing the work and interacting through the AI. It’s, we’re entering a new world.
[Pavan] Yes it’s your twin can do literally everything you can do. It’s learning from you every single day as you interact with it. Okay and it can talk and interact and have the same emotional responses That you have with your customers and build the same relationships. and not just you as the loan officer’s watching this, or as realtors watching this, but it’s you as the local pizza maker, the local dry cleaner, right? Or, the repair shop or whatever, right? Because everyone needs to interact and interchange with your customers, with your partners, with your vendor and let’s get that, let’s get that business done by your AI. And let’s you focus on being innovative, right? And loading your innovation into your wallet, right? Not in somebody else’s wallet, but into your wallet and those innovations remain.
[David] That’s such an exciting concept where you get to own virtually everything instead of it being in the data center, which is the distribution I’m hearing. I’m seeing that so much more. I was just in Florida at a new technology event about talking about power and how we’re gonna be distributed. The big power grids that where we’ve had so much struggle with and are antiquated and beyond belief. We’re going into a new world. It’s just very exciting, fun. I always love it. Is there anything else new and exciting out there you want to share with other interesting world economic forum story?
[Pavan] I’ll tell you. Yeah I was having the last night I had dinner as it were an event that Jamie Dimon was speaking at. I left before Jamie came because I just got tired as I get up from there. I want to go home, get some sleep. But the lady I sat next to she’s amazing. Just amazing lady. She’s she’s one of the lar, probably the largest exporter of wine from Italy. She exports million bottles of wine a year Italian wine. And then that’s the reason go to these things is you get to network with Yeah. Interesting people like and so she was she was talking about, how each wine bottle has its own personality and she has different spokespeople. Different charities that each line is associated with and so forth. And I said, you know what? What if we made a twin for each wine bottle? So the customer, when they’re looking at the wine, they can just take the smartphone, right? on the Angel AI app take a picture of the label, right? And then from there, the representative, the spokesperson for that wine. The twin of that particular bottle can start talking to you and you can say who grew it, which let me talk to the, let me talk to the vineyard and the owner of the vineyard. Let me talk to the guy who picked the grapes. And all of those people can, you can start having a conversation with all of the people that along the supply chain that went into making that wine bottle. So she’s just ecstatic. So we’re already getting the process going so that every one of our wine bottles will have a twin. And at the same time you’re having conversation in a wine bottle, right? And as you’re having that conversation with the wine bottle, right? Your twin is learning about you and is going into your vault. So now he’s learning what kind of wine you like and, what you think about, what’s your priorities. And maybe it’s, if you bought a 10,000 bottle of wine, maybe he’s going to say, Hey, I think you need to get a mortgage too. Pay for that wine bottle.
[David] Yeah, that’s fine. I’m chuckling as I hear you talking about talking to wine bottles, many of us were in college. There was many a time we drank too much and we’re talking to a wine, a bottle or whoever with some other in it and animate objects. So yeah, it’s anyway, that’s funny. Pavan, very exciting. Thanks so much for being here today.
[Pavan] Thank you, David.