In this groundbreaking episode of Lykken on Lending, we dive into how AI is reshaping the mortgage industry — not by replacing loan officers, but by empowering them to reclaim their time, their business, and their personal lives. David Lykken is joined by Troy Kennedy, Founder of LoanWorks.AI, and Jodi Perry, a top-producing loan officer who shares firsthand how this cutting-edge technology is revolutionizing the way she works. Together, they reveal how full AI integration is eliminating tedious tasks, accelerating closings, and restoring the human connection at the heart of lending. If you’ve ever wondered whether AI could truly transform the mortgage process for the better, this is the episode you need to hear.
[David] Listeners, we’re in for a real treat because we’re talking about the new way to do mortgage lending. No, we’re not reinventing the entire process, but many of the processes are getting automated today by something you’re hearing about and it’s artificial intelligence. One of the people that is on this call had the vision and then he started hiring people that saw and recognized the power of this and have aligned with it. What’s going on is we’ve hearing so much about AI listeners. We’re hearing, seeing so much about artificial intelligence, what it can do, all promises, but who’s really using it effectively? today we have on the podcast, Troy Kennedy, the founder of LoanWorks.AI, and someone who is embracing it and using it powerfully. Jodi Perry. So Troy and Jody, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
[Jodi] Thanks for having us
[David] So the reason I bring this up because Troy, you know how many naysayers there are out there about the whole AI world. In fact, you yourself had some doubts about it when you were forming this company. You wanted to build a company that had some uniqueness, that had a different way of going about it, and you knew tech was the solution, but which way do we go? could you talk a little bit about that, just briefly?
[Troy] Yeah. David, it’s been 20 years in the making, coming from a tech and entrepreneurial background, starting selling growing companies first in dot com and then in financial services, wanted to marry the two in mortgage and, that’s kind of right after the dot com boom. And we figured everything was gonna be automated at some point, and sure enough, it, it is. It just took 20 years. It’s been quite a journey waiting for this moment to arrive, and honestly, it’s not worth trying to do little incremental changes. That’s one of the things that has plagued the industry thus far. So, really it took this revolutionary change to really capture my attention and to do something incredibly valuable that differentiates, our people and our company and creates real value for customers.
[David] I’d like to say it’s also getting good consultants around you. You did reach out to me. A self-promoting plug there because you reached out to me and we talked about what tech stack to use and you looked at, going with elements of the old or making this bold new step into using angel AI. And I know a lot of people are hearing more and more about Angel AI, they’re going to be hearing more about it. But what was the compelling part of that, Troy, that made you go, okay, we’re letting go of all the past. I’m putting all the chips down on the future of this one solution. Why?
[Troy] It’s a matter of doing things boldly and creating the future that you want, right? And there weren’t a lot of options out there for these decades to come until now. And I did recognize it and I do tend to send, surround myself with best in class people. That’s why I’m on this podcast with the two of you. In doing so, I also shook the tree of everything else that existed in the industry. I start to finish bottom to top and back down again. So I’m very careful in what I do. It’s not that I’m completely risk averse, but it’s a calculated risk and there needs to be a true benefit, and true ROI, everything. And having done an exhaustive study of the industry, this was a clear solution. it was one of those just magic moments where, you know, you found it. Okay, then it’s how to integrate it and that’s where you and I talked, I sought you out and your Transformational Mortgage Solutions consultancy and so highly recommended by Casey at Movement and a lot of other industry leaders. And I got to know you fell in love with you and we really saw eye to eye on this. You’ve been around the industry so long. You have a vision of the past, the current and the future, and that’s where we really clicked and, and then worked through those last little machinations of, hey. Do you do the whole tech stack or do you just take this one incredible piece of it and that’s where we decided yes, we can do entire thing.
[David] Yeah, let’s go all in, there’s so much about that story. I’d love to tell and we maybe will at some point in time, Jodi, we can create the greatest companies in the world. But it takes people like you who come alongside this and recognize a vision. Then start really using it. You too had to take a significant leap of faith in this journey. What was it that you saw in what Troy built at LoanWorks.AI that made you go, I’m gonna give this a try. What was it, Jodi?
[Jodi] He was really thoughtful about all the different aspects of the company. We were gonna leverage it. Listen, So I’m not young and when he starts talking about AI, in all honesty, I had some anxiety about it, but I also recognized that you either have to get in and beco and be part of it and also capitalize on that being part of it or you can sit back and watch other people do it and and miss out on the incredible opportunity. I also really am a big, I like to build, I like to build as well and when Troy and I first spoke, he shared that I could really be part of what this looks like as we build it and as we form it. And I would would definitely say it has some of my DNA on it. And it was very exciting to be, it’s still every day, like I wake up all jazzed every day because I’m, it’s so exciting to be here and it’s so exciting when I, when I share. Other people what we’re doing. They’re like, what? And I just put a file in this morning. I was just looking at it while we were on talk.
[David] That’s where I wanted to go, is I wanted to go right there because it’s, you are actually using it. This isn’t a theory, this isn’t a dream and a promise. It’s working for you today and I wanna hear about some of the stories. So talk about the file you put in today. I’m really excited about that.
[Jodi] So I get an alert that an application came in and it gives me a name and a loan number, and I would say the most from a loan officer. I’ve been doing this since 1998. I will say that I’ve always been tethered to a laptop and I’ve also always been tethered to the company’s laptop, so it’s a double whammy. I remember driving home from Pittsburgh one time, and I left my computer in Pittsburgh. I couldn’t, I was completely, I was, couldn’t work, couldn’t do anything. So I had to drive back to Pittsburgh to get my computer and I live in Virginia, so that was a eight hour, you know, round, round trip. Yeah. Yeah. So it ended up being a 12 hour turn. So, I got an application today. I wasn’t home. Troy always makes fun of me because I’m out and about a lot. So I was in my car. I pulled over and I grabbed the loan number and the borrower’s name, and I went and from my phone I created an errand with Angel, and then I said, please process. Please pull soft credit process and underwrite the file. That was at 9:11 AM at 9:30 this morning, she said at nine 30 credit’s been pulled. The file’s been processed, and it’s been submitted to underwriting in 19 minutes on. You know, whatever day it is, a Wednesday, but one of my best stories is I’m sitting with my family in Pittsburgh about three weeks ago. It’s 7:30 at night, on a Sunday. Sunday, and a file comes in. Same thing. I get an email that a file came in, did the same thing, created an errand, and I asked her to pull stuff, credit process, underwrite the loan from as I had a cocktail in my hand at dinner with my family, and at 8:00 AM in the morning, you’re, we have a 8:00 AM guarantee, so at 8:00 AM in the morning, I have a fully underwritten, fully approved file with a lender letter. From Sunday to Monday morning, when I get contracts, ratified contracts on Saturday, I’m actually moving the file. That’s another thing is the file moves 20 and every time a condition is submitted, it gets cleared. So there’s no like clear downs. It’s like every condition is a clear down. So you just keep work. So if somebody likes to wanna send you one condition at a time, it’s okay. We just clear that condition. Five left, clear that condition. Four left. Clear that condition. Three left. Okay, keep, keep coming. You got three left, right? I always say this when somebody says why, like, what, why LoanWorks, why? and from a very personal standpoint, quality of life is the number one answer.
[David] Yeah. See that’s when I saw that first video, and listeners, why I have Jodi on here is Pavan, the founder of Angel Al sent me a video of Jodi and he says, this is why I’m doing it. Look at what we’re doing for the quality of her life. And it’s if you get to know Pavan, he’s all about not just making money as an entrepreneur and running a mortgage company and, and a tech guy. He really wants to improve quality of life. He was so moved by your story. He says, Dave, you gotta listen to this. And I listened to it. That story you just told, how you were driving to a game in Pittsburgh and you got an application in and the same kind of thing. You pulled over to the off the road as good that you’re pulling over and not trying to do this while you’re driving. There’s too many of us trying to do that. And you actually filled out the form and by the time you got to the game, it was approved and all done. Jodi, a lot of people listening to this are gonna go, yeah, but Jody must be a programmer. Jody must be, have super powers when it comes to running technology. How long did it take for you to learn this and do you have superpowers that makes it possible? or is it just this that it’s just that it’s that easy.
[Jodi] It’s really that easy. And I remember my first file with Troy. I got it clear to close and it was, it was closing the next day. And we had actually, no, it was clear to close. It was closing in like four days and we had already had docks out, so it was like all set up, ready to go. And I think our total turn time on that file, I think we had a 10 day closing. We were clear to close four days early, and I remember Troy called and he said, congratulations, you just closed your, you just got your first deal here. And I said, yeah. And I go, it’s crazy. I think I spent about 15 minutes on the phone, and I swear to God, I tell this story all the time. Troy’s exact words were. well, that’s really great, Jody, but that’s 15 minutes too long. We gotta get that number down and then I laughed and I said back to him, I said, well, it was only 15 minutes because it was my first one and I didn’t, I didn’t have all the trust in the system yet. So I was like in there, I was trying to make up things to do because I didn’t have anything to do and one of my agents says all the time, she’s like. If you’re looking for Jodi, she might be out mowing her lawn on a Tuesday afternoon because AI is doing all of her file work. And I was like, that’s a true story. That’s, I’m mowing my grass.
[David] So when it goes to the quality of life, when you can have a system and it really goes about, then you are more about what I think this industry has always been about and it’s the relationships. When you have just meeting you, I would love to get to know you better. You’re just one of those delightful, engaging people and choice seems to surround himself like with people like that, I gotta tell you that that’s what Troy is.
[Troy] And it’s part of our culture here.
[David] It’s part of your culture and it’s such a good culture. So. Anyone listening to this is looking to find a culture where it’s, fun and engaging and you have, and your juicy technology have fun. You should get a hold of Troy or Jodi and join the team. But when you look at Jodi, what this can do for you and your business, both from standpoint doing more volume, but as well as giving you part of a good amount of your life back.
[Jodi] So, its funny, when I was 25 I would’ve went, I’ll tenfold my business all day long because that’s great and I just want to do smarter business now, I’m in production but I’m really heavy on the recruiting. I’m constantly talking to agents and loan officers and stuff, so I’m not as pressed down on the production. But I am in production. I do have a loan closing tomorrow. So we’re. We’re rolling, but the, I always say, what our motto is we can tenfold your business, and then I always pull back a little bit or you could five times your business and actually enjoy your life and actually be part of your kids’ lives and actually have, I’ll tell you that I think the hardest person on the planet to be with and love is a loan officer because we’re rude. Because we could be, you could be sobbing, telling me the most horrible story, gut-wrenching story of your life and if my phone rings and it’s my top real estate agent, sorry David, you gotta hold that thought. Just hold that thought for a minute.
[David] Hold that emotion.
[Jodi] I’ll be right back. Promise. I’ll be right back. What do you need? What do you need? You gotta borrower. So I always say it’s very challenging and I was on vacation to Mexico last year and this is one of my favorite stories. So my family, I’m obviously very close to my family ’cause I’ve brought them up 10 times already, but I’m sitting at a resort enjoying the pool in some adult beverages, and my mom comes over and she said, did you lose your job? And I said, no, mom, why? and she goes, I haven’t seen you on your computer one time You’ve been here. And I said, because I can actually work from my phone and I’m actually doing business while I’m here, but I’m doing it from my phone. And she was like, what? Because my family, if they drew a picture of me on any vacation, it’s me with my toes in the water, with my laptop on or at the pool with my laptop on my lap, or at the bar with my laptop over here. It’s always, you’re so tethered to that, and that’s the way everybody recognizes. That we’re loan officers because we’re always sitting on our laptops.
[David] And we’re dealing with a transaction that’s the most important transaction of someone’s life and you were talking about when, before we went live here on the recording about how you moved recently and I’m going through, I’m selling my house and the trauma, there’s a lot and I’ve been in the business for 51 years and you go, we don’t recognize what someone’s going through and to be able to be there where you’re focusing more of your attention, not doing tasks that some, a computer now can do that’s AI can do, but you’re focusing in on the relationship. I think that’s the greatest power that this has and the greatest multiplier that’ll have not only on your life, but also your business and growing your business.
[Jodi] And some of the pushback that I get sometimes is what about your relationships? I’m like, what about my relationships? I’m still touching base with my borrowers all the time. I’m just not talking to you, David, that I need your 2023 W2. Because that’s being taken care of back here. I’m just checking in. Hey, the appraisal was done yesterday. I expect the report in a couple days. Just wanted to check in, see how you’re doing. I’ll let you know as soon as the appraisal’s back. I know that you’re probably like, if you don’t have a little bit of anxiety and an excitement at the same time, I’m thinking you might not be alive right now, so like it’s all good we got you covered and that’s more, that’s what’s happening. You’re not, it’s not that you’re neglecting the borrowers, it’s that your conversations with them. It’s not always about business. It’s about them and what’s going on and what time are the moving trucks coming? How’s your wife feeling about this are your kids coming to help you move in? or whatever story you told me a couple days ago. Yeah. It’s about that.
[David] Yeah and it’s so good to hear you talk about the important things. And that is, are we listening and really interacting with our borrowers, with where they’re at and where their hearts are at and what’s giving them anxiety? what’s keeping ’em up? And you’re focusing on that and not, yeah. I’m sorry. I’d love to hear more about that, but did you get your tax returns today? Can you get this? It’s being done. Let’s talk a little bit about those that are tried Angel AI. I’m thinking of several individuals who are skeptics. They go, I’ve tried this system. I don’t get it, why is it that you got it? What do you think it was about you, Jodi, that created an open door for you to barge through it? Was it what Troy set up or the way he went about it?
[Jodi] Two things. One is when you’re fully integrated into ai, I will argue that your experience is always gonna be different. So if you’ve been an outsider and you’re using AI, because I’ve heard the same things you have, David, I’ve heard this before. I don’t, I wasn’t a big fan of. Sunwest or angel AI? Because they’re outsiders and they have to do a lot more steps to get the same thing that we get because we’re fully integrated in and a lot more, might be a couple more, but, so we’re fully integrated and honestly I don’t candy coat it. I tell everybody your first three files here are gonna cause so much anxiety that you may start a unhealthy habit for a minute. Because Troy every time on every call, and what does Jodi always say? Stay out of your file. Literally stay outta your file because we’re so used to, the only way our files close is if we’re in them and we’re making all the pieces move and here you have to trust. We actually had somebody that was always in the file and completely messed up every file and then things were happening. This happened and we were all, for a minute it took us, took the engineers a couple days we’re like. That’s never happened. And they’re, I’m sure in their head they’re like, sure, yeah, sure. That’s never happened. I promise. That’s never happened. And then they figured out that while the system’s doing its thing, she was in there just changing things and it was conflicting with each other. So that got figured out. But you just gotta let it, the first three files are, you’re learning a completely, especially if you’re not young and didn’t grow up with all this stuff. Those first couple files are very challenging. I’ve been telling Troy, I was like, we need some. We need some like 25-year-old new ones that will just go in and just not they’ll never know the difference.
[Troy]We have them too and they’re coming. The system really does serve like all sorts of people in different phases of their careers. Clearly we have people that are operating at the top of their game and this just increases their capacity. So they can 10x their business or take half of it to grow their business and half of it for balance of work-life balance. Then there are people that are newer to the business and that just come in and they’re spending all their time learning business development and out there on the street pulling deals in. Letting it run in the background and they’re not trained to stay in their old LOS and try to figure out the PPE and why that doesn’t match the other lender portal’s pricing and then transfer and credit appraisal, all the stuff shopping around to various lenders. All the chaos that exists in the broker world, in the broken broker world. We’ve integrated the whole thing so that people that just come into it that don’t, aren’t trained in bad habits like that, they just let it run and they’re going out doing business and being successful and then of course, they’re the people at the latter stages of their career that just want to do deals whenever they cross their desk and the rest of the time they wanna spend with their grandchildren and they can do that. They can take the deal in Go back and enjoy their lives.
[David] I love the fact that Troy, you’ve created a company with that vision, and I love the fact, Jodi, that you are trusting the vision and operating in it so successfully. Kudos to you both. It’s a wonderful to see these partnerships and then of course, we give a big shout out to Angel AI, but this is the first company I’ve seen that really does the job of taking all that Pavan has built all that Jennifer and Pavan and the whole team at Angel AI. Have built and are actually making it work. Kudos to you. You’re a visionary. But the best part, they say how you can always tell you’re a you’re an explorer or a pioneer is because all the arrows in your back, you don’t have any arrows. It’s working. It’s working.
[Troy] There’s a difference in the entrepreneurial world of being on the bleeding edge and the cutting edge. The bleeding edge, yeah, the leading edge right there. And you bring up a great point, David that this is the tip of the iceberg. Okay? This is just the first iteration, and granted it’s the six year of iteration proven internally, six years of machine learning on 46 years worth of proprietary data. All these things separate it from anything and anybody else that can try to fast follow, you can’t. It’s not a generative ai. It’s a true neural network. Fully patented. It’s incredible and Pavan and Jennifer and the entire, AngelList team is just They’re amazing. Yeah. So yeah. But this is the tip of the spear and there’s continuous improvement and new rollouts and improvements. It’s amazing that are happening constantly, including Jodi and her input is really, when she says her DNA is in it, that’s how we work as an entrepreneur organization. There’s nothing more valuable than ground up feedback. Alright. And we have such a close relationship that goes right back into the programming sometimes the same day and that improves it, the whole world. Yeah, literally the world PA’s on Global Tour, we were just the Global Mindset Summit on Saturday, and so it’s just amazing how it just keeps getting better and better and the paradox of it is the more sophisticated the technology, the more you would expect it to be challenging to understand and embrace and utilize, but it’s quite the opposite. It’s more and more intuitive. So, anybody can just come in and we have a great onboarding and then all the support structure that’s built around it and that, I think is just really critical and anybody can pick up wherever they are in their career and call it a long-term home.
[David] That’s great. Jodi?
[Jodi] And from when I started last March to today, the system is fairly unrecognizable. She’s so fast and so we had to customize her more for how we do business as opposed to how Sunwest does business and it’s different and so some of the things that she didn’t do where she didn’t have, as part of her system we have now, we’ve requested, we have their ear, they build them in and we, it’s funny, every time when I log in, if this little thing comes up and says, please reload. We got a new version.
[Troy] I love that.
[Jodi] I’ll tell you , it’s like it what Troy said. Normally, sometimes, like some of the apple updates, I hate them. I can’t find pictures half the time now from the last update, I’m like, why didn’t you change it? It was fine and it becomes more burdensome with us. Every time she does that, it’s literally one less task that we’re doing in a file and we have very few. Our really, our whole job here is to go create business and creating business around all of our value prop. Our unique value propositions is pretty easy to do, and I don’t know if you recognize my shirt, but we also have ways for real estate agents to be involved. We have way for brokerage real estate brokerages to get involved and compliantly participate in the mortgage piece. And it’s, 2025’s gonna be a fun year. 24 really. We’re bolding it down and making these changes that we needed and Troy’s big on baiting, which I gave him a hard time at the beginning. But he was like, you gotta slow down. Gotta slow down. We gotta make sure it works. And I appreciate it. I do appreciate it and 2024 got all those things baited and got everything squarely on the floor and now we’re ready. Now we’re in that big growth and momentum phase. Yeah, so you can get paid to be a realtor, a lender, and a recruiter, because Troy has set up our long-term residual income piece where you do. paid forever. A recruiting override on anybody that you bring into LoanWorks, so a real estate agent. I wear these a lot to my real estate conferences and stuff, but are you getting three, three times comp? Are you getting paid three times for the same work? That’s pretty powerful, especially in this very, it’s been pretty challenging. We have a lot less loan officers and real estate agents, and they’re, this creates another revenue stream for them, which just marries beautifully in. And we, I love lots of time with compliance, getting every, all, everything lined up. Perfectly so that we can do this.
[David] Yeah. Jodi I’m so glad Pavan sent me over that video, so I got to meet you. I can’t wait to meet you in person. What I enjoy so much is I’m 74 years old. I’ve been into technology, using technology at the early adopter, but it’s fun to meet someone else who is older, that has experienced person who is also adopting it. We have an older generation of loan officers that their life’s gonna become so much easier if they’ll do what you’re doing and I give so much. So much easier. I love it. And Troy again…
[Jodi] And that strategy, like we’re all only as good as our last loan. The way Troy’s created the company is you can build it and you can sunset in and you can actually still reap the rewards of all of the time and energy that you put in into the business.
[David] Yeah, it’s amazing. Troy, what an amazing culture. What an amazing vision. It’s been a joy to work with you and I look forward to it. I want this story told because I want people to hear. I want your competitors hear about that and have them shaking their boots a little bit. Because quite honestly, when you hear the stories of what Jodi tells us. If you wanna go to work for a company that feels like a sweatshop where I have to do all these things and have my mind clogged up and it distracted me from my personal time, from the time of my family or do I wanna work for a company that has a system that actually has really invested the time to make it work, where I do have the ability to do the most important thing? that’s relationship. Relationship with my clients, yes. Relationship with my realtors, yes. But most importantly, relationship with my family. Kudos, Troy.
[Jodi] One last thing on that, let’s not forget that as loan officers. We are always paying people to do their job. So we’re paying people file bonuses if we need somebody to log in on a Saturday, because we got, a couple deals that we, that are rushes, we need, we have to comp them for that. We have to take care of them and then as a loan officer, one of the most stressful times on the planet is when it’s summer and of course people have the right to take vacations, something that loan officers never do, but they have the right to take vacations ad when is our time is when it’s nice out, right? So the beautiful thing about Angel is she doesn’t take vacation. We don’t pay her file bonuses. I did math on that because I had a salaried, LOA, I had a salaried processor and then file bonuses and it. It was insane. How much money? It was about $200,000 in 2023 that I spent between salaries and file bonuses.
[Troy] If you look even deeper than that too, a lot of companies are charging for LOS, CRM, different support services, marketing, all sorts. So we’re not paying for any of that. This is all being provided free of charge as an integrated platform that is committed to faster and more thorough automation. So the whole goal is to keep all of us doing what we love to do, and that’s whatever we consider to be our highest and best use. That is different for every person and this just allows that freedom to be who you want in your professional life and your personal life that you both, brought up so poignantly, we’re not only revolutionizing lending, with this tech, but we’re really revolutionizing careers in the lifestyle that it affords and the way that you get to enjoy the process and those that you work with as well and not to mention the unique comp plans, we have two aspects to the unique comp plans that really change people’s lives. Create lasting wealth, even generational wealth at some point. But, hey, you mentioned something about the other companies. I just wanna say there are so many great companies out there, and they have built very successful models in what is one of the most challenging industries. We love the mortgage industry, right? It offers incredible, flexibility and work, compensation, reward and we’re helping people everyday, that’s the best part. Help people. Hats off to all the companies that have built these successful companies. If it’s working for loan officers, great, but our vision is just a little bit different and don’t wanna knock any of ’em because it works and it’s incredible what has been built. We’ve just reinvented the whole thing and built from the ground up around this new vision and let’s face it AI and blockchain and automation are disrupting all industries, literally all industries. It’s changing the way children are learning in school and what skill sets do you need to be successful out there? Heck, I even went back to school. I took started taking some classes on AI and business at Harvard just to stay top and fresh, and I thought I was done with school after grad school, but I, back it, it’s continuous learning, right? and the old adage it’s old now, but it was literally back then, will AI take your job? No, but someone using AI probably will and that’s where we started and it is just proven out so true. And we’re aligned with that future trend and committed to staying at the forefront in integrating any practical technology’s not tech for the sake of tech. That’s a mess. But practical tech, that really helps people. That’s what we’re all about.
[David] That’s outstanding. Troy, for people that wanna learn more about Loan works.ai, how can they do so.
[Troy] Oh, easy. loanworks.ai and peruse the site. There’s a ton of information in there including a contact us page and a careers page, pretty robust about section and all that. Feel free to reach out to us through there or 855 loan works and we happy to talk to everybody including peers. We have branch opportunities for those that have established business to just wanna run a franchise inside of LoanWorks and to all the loan officers, there’s a huge opportunity to grow a sales organization. Jodi is our top sales manager and has a loan org sales organization over 20 people, she’s amazing. Really can’t wait to eat for you all to get to know her more and probably future episodes so everyone watching can see more and learn more about what we’re doing.
[David] We’re gonna have you back, that’s for sure. Yeah. Very much fun. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Listeners, pay attention. Let’s share this with your bosses thinking. Does that AI thing work? Yes, it’s working. I know we now have a company that we can point to LoanWorks.AI and a loan officer, Jodi Perry, who’s actually working it and guess what? She’s not a computer programmer. She’s a loan officer that’s realizing the benefits of the new world that we’re entering into. Thank you, Jodi. Thank you, Troy. Have a great rest of your day.
[Troy] Thank you too, David. Thanks, Jody. Great job everyone. Bye for now.