Angel AI, a groundbreaking innovation from Celligence, is revolutionizing the mortgage and financial services industry with its advanced artificial intelligence capabilities. Founded on visionary thinking by Pavan Agarwal, Angel AI leverages state-of-the-art technology to offer unparalleled solutions in financial planning, credit repair, and even tax preparation. Its intuitive design and rapid learning capabilities enable it to provide personalized, real-time assistance, making financial services more accessible and efficient for users. As the AI continues to evolve, future developments are set to include decentralized finance features, secure digital wallets, and microfinance solutions, bridging the gap between global capital markets and individual consumers. With its commitment to democratizing financial services, Angel AI is poised to transform the way we manage and interact with our finances, driving innovation and inclusivity in the industry.
[David] Listeners, welcome back for another episode with Pavan and he is with Angel AI I’m so excited about this interview. We’re going to continue to talk about the innovation that’s happening over at Celligence. And that is again, a sister company to SunWest Mortgage. And I’m excited to have joining me again. Pavan Agarwal. And I’m excited to be talking about the innovation that’s going on with Angel AI and Pavan, Good to have you here, friend. Appreciate you being back.
[Pavan] Good to be back, David and because today we’re gonna dig deep in technology, I’m wearing my Brillianeers cap, our engineers, we call them Brillianeers. That’s the trademark name.
[David] I have one of those caps. And I would be wearing my angel AI shirt. But we have new floors being put in our upper stairs. I can’t get to our closet right now. I was going to put that on. So I’m having to wear the same thing I wore yesterday. So we’re recording with while construction is going on in the background, but it’s good to have you here Pavan, one of the things I want to talk about is you have been anticipating or designing angel AI with an intuition that is been ahead of its time. Let’s start by talking about what has gone into the design of angel AI.
[Pavan] Some people call it intuition. Some people call me a dreamer. I don’t know. It says Steve Jobs said, here’s what the dreamers.
[David] I think people that dreamers have intuition. So, I would bundle those together and it’s brilliant. I think the thing that shows up in everything you’re doing is again, I refer to you as a savant in what’s going on and again, that term is not just throwing out something to be complimentary towards you, but you’ve been doing things that ahead of the rest of the industry for decades, Everyone knows the story. I met you 40 some years ago when you were a young man in your dad’s office and you programmed how to calculate the APR before anyone else did. And so your dad called you a savant. I respect him. And I’ve learned that to be very much true with what you’re building with angel AI. What is it about the way you are wired to come up with something like, and I’m going to go into a chat GPT interface, a texting interface to interact with your technology. Chat GPT didn’t even exist when you originally started designing angel AI Pavan, was that just fortuitous luck or, how did you do that?
[Pavan] I grew up being different as an immigrant from, back in the eighties from a country that most people didn’t know about, the culture that was very different, very foreign to American culture and on top of that, I had a pretty severe ADD, right? And I could see things in my head and I could see solutions and problems in ways other people didn’t see. But I couldn’t communicate that. I couldn’t put it down on paper. And I was terrible at taking tests and so forth, right? So, all of those combination of things which could be considered disabilities, which I thought was a real advantage because I started, I said, you know what, I’m going to challenge everything as I felt this drive like I have to do it differently because I felt I was right and I felt I couldn’t get it out there between the lack of maturity and the lack of skills and learning how to control my ADD and things like that. I didn’t know how to get it out there, but I knew I was right. I had a better way of looking at finance and looking at the business. So that’s, going back to the eighties, that’s where my mindset was. And fast forward to 2018, when we first rolled out Angel AI, back then it was called Virtual Assist. And the whole idea that you can build a system, a complex vast system that you do, big heavy lifting stuff by a simple chat, it was one of those things where people were laughing at me what are you talking about? that is so contrary culture, because the culture back then was, Mark Zuckerberg and metaverse and 3D goggles and virtual reality and everyone was like no you got to go that way. That’s where everyone’s at. I said no, that’s too complicated. I like simple my simple brain likes simple things.
[David] I think here’s one of the things I want to park on this just for a minute, Pavan, because I think there’s a lot of people that say, I’ve got ADD, I’ve got dyslexia. That’s something that you and I talk about. I have dyslexia and it’s pretty severe and I didn’t discover this until later in life, we moved from California not too far that’s where I met your dad is moved from California to Austin, Texas area. We hired a educational consultant because my wife’s a licensed teacher trained in education. So we felt very comfortable having a deal, but we didn’t know what curriculum to pick out. So we hired a consultant. They came over to the house. The long story short is she looked at me and said, you have severe dyslexia. The daughter you wanted to homeschool has severe dyslexia. And your other daughter has it mildly, Nancy, you’re the only linear thinker in the room and she handed us a book called the gift of dyslexia. She says, Dave, be encouraged. You made me feel like you’re very strange and I relate so much to your story because I didn’t think I was smart in school. I didn’t enjoy reading. I couldn’t read numbers, switch around and columns and spreadsheets, how I ever made it in finance is a bit of a miracle, but she says, Dave, Einstein was severely dyslexic. Read this book and it grabbed my attention. I went through that book, Pavan, we experienced people, those of us with the gift that we have, and it’s referred to as a gift, not a disability is we look at the world differently. We experience it differently. Einstein created the concept of the theory of relativity by surfing or traveling on a light beam. That’s how people with brains like you and I, you’re a lot smarter than I am. But the way we wire and put things together is oftentimes quite different from the rest of the world. And so there’s the linear thinkers like my wife, God bless them. We need all of the linear thinkers in the world that we need them all. But those of us that have this brain, I shared that book with a number of executives because there’s a high percentage of executives that have dyslexia or ADD and they see it as a curse. I’m trying to encourage people with this story, this part of your story, to see it as a blessing because you use this as a gift to almost travel forward in time to see the way things are now. You saw that way back when, and you started designing your product around the future before the future existed.
[Pavan] That’s right. It is a gift because I wanted to smash the norm, most of my adult life was spent trying to see this vision that I see of how things should be with the right way to do things and present it and interface it to the rest of the world. So that’s been the challenge. Like, I have this vision of how lending should work. And I had this vision of how so many people, I saw the world full of people like me who didn’t get the benefit of the doubt, who the system said you don’t fit in the box. So therefore you’re out. Okay.
[David] I was told that all my life, Pavan. That’s why I think that’s why we get along so is we have been told that same thing. How did you overcome that? That’s a part of the story I like sharing with those that struggle with it. How did you overcome it? Was it perseverance or staying true to the vision and that what was in your heart?
[Pavan] It just happened. Back then no one knew what ADD was and the medications and all that. I stumbled my way through high school and somehow I got to college and I’m not sure how I did that. And I just learned as I was doing my work, first of all, I focus on what I was passionate about, what I really had a natural, normal.
[David] Focus on what you’re passionate about.
[Pavan] Stuff that I really love to do. I found it easier to focus and concentrate on stuff that I really love to do, which is in my case is mathematics, science, computers. Things like that. So literally, I still remember the moment where it all clicked to me as I was working in my calculus homework and I was able to get to the sort of new level of concentration, a new level of thinking of existence where it felt like while I was getting this work done, time stopped, I felt like I was in between, I was in between seconds. Obviously time was still clicking, but it felt like that and then I entered this higher level of concentration, which is not even imaginable. So, I think ADD is actually a road. It’s a gift, not a disability. I think it’s a door that opens to another level, another way of thinking. Another dimension of thinking and I’ve never taken ADD medications in my life maybe things would have been easier if I had but I think that if you have ADD and if you figure out how to open that door, how to walk through that door, I think you open yourself up to this gift that the medication would suppress. And I’m not telling you and I’m not giving you advice that anyone listening with ADD say stop taking ADD medicine. That’s not what I’m saying. I could get in trouble for that. What I’m saying is, take some time and explore your mind. Explore it through meditation and other things and try to spend some time doing things that really inspire, you really motivate you. And maybe that might be a way to open some doors into new ways and new levels of consciousness that you didn’t think existed.
[David] Yeah. I think one of the things we’re going to fast forward to something you and I were talking about last night in preparation for this podcast, what’s amazing about the whole design of angel AI, it’s all in your head. You have it in your head and it takes an amazing intellect and ability to have something as complex as what you’re creating with AI in your head. That is a strategic advantage. Someone can’t hire your staff away and try to replicate what you’re doing because they only have pieces of it. So that’s one thing I just want to encourage everyone to realize. Number one, if you think you’re different, that may be a gift. Don’t see it as a negative. Number two, is how you get over it is pursue your passion. Number three is stay true to the vision. Let’s get back to your vision. Talk more about your vision Pavan.
[Pavan] Yeah, the real vision apart from fair lending and all that, if I go down to the core is the way I felt out of the system out of the box on my own not fitting in because I thought differently. I was different. Okay. And that actually inspired me to be more productive and to get things done. But I see also, I’ve seen the other side of, I’ve seen so many people who are, quote, unquote, put in a box by society or by their immediate environment and instead of them taking that as, and it’s not their fault, that ends up crushing them, crushing their personality, holding them back. So my whole thing is I’m about building things that will help people rise up. And it just so happens, it just so happens. I grew up in my family business, which is real estate and finance. So I’m taking that passion and desire and I’m applying it to real estate and finance and as luck would have it or as God would intend it, that the fastest way to help the most number of people is through finance, right? If I really wanted to help the maximum number of people is come up with financial solutions so people can get access to money. So ultimately if I look at it from a distance, I’m like, yeah, but did God plan this all along? was this all part of the process that somehow almost seems that way? I’m not trying to get all religious or spiritual here.
[David] I think you and I have talked before, they are very intertwined. And I think we are spiritual beings and we have intellects and we have all these gifts. It’s important that if you ignore one side or the other, you’re going to be missing a big part of the equation. But this has given you the ability to think of something out of the box and another thing I want to point out is it’s not about making money as to help others. I think a Zig Ziglar says, you don’t want to know how to get rich, help someone else get what they need or what they desire in the course of doing that, you, yourself are going to achieve success. And so I think that’s what you’ve been focused. I love the fact that you’ve been focused on fair lending. We’ve done so many podcasts already Pavan about what angel AI does, but real quickly for those that may not, I want to do this as a teaser to encourage people to go back, listen to all the previous interviews that we’ve done. They’ve been a number of them. They’re really good. Go back and listen. We’ll put links to those previous interviews with pull on in this interview, but real quickly, and it’s in a nutshell, what is Angel AI?
[Pavan] You know, that answer keeps changing because as the product keeps evolving. So I’ll put it this way, Elon Musk, I think last week made a statement that in the next three years CPAs and Financial Advisors will be replaced by AI. Okay. So now Angel AI has matured to such a point now and is learning so fast. Okay. In 2024 tax returns will be done by Angel AI. Angel AI is already delivering pre credit repair service, right?
[David] Yeah, you just launched that, and you’re now talking about getting into preparing taxes.
[Pavan] Yes, it’s learning because the rate at which the AI is learning is exponential. It’s mind blowing because a big part of this where we did a major upgrade to a neural net when we launched the credit repair and now she’s able to take all the knowledge that she’s been acquiring. Remember preparing tax returns. How is that different than reading tax returns? You have to read tax returns for the mortgage business. So, you just tell the AI.
[David] You’ve read hundreds of thousands of tax returns in course of doing your mortgage loan. And so you have all this data already.
[Pavan] Exactly. And you just tell the AI to reverse that, right? You’re literally saying instead of reading it now, prepare it. It’s not that hard. I’m grossly oversimplifying it, but that’s the idea.
[David] As you found out when you launched the credit repair, that turned out to be a lot more challenging than you realized.
[Pavan] Training her wasn’t the hard part. The challenging part was at the same time we were upgrading her neural net. And it was all those moving pieces. The amount of work and science that went into that is mind boggling. But now that the new neural net is fully functional is tested. She is learning on the fly when people go in and make credit repair requests and they ask for things that she wasn’t trained on. She learns on the fly. It is wild. We’re watching her learn new pathways with traditional programming, right? like a traditional bank software. These would have been change orders that would have taken weeks or months and a new release, and any, all the people in the movies business watching it, and your favorite LOS, you need a change done, and a new rule comes out because of a new MISMO file format, or new MIP or something and you sit there, cross your fingers, wait for the new release to be installed, which is almost always late, and almost always full of bugs. Now, those same kinds of things, this thing, Angel, she can do this in hours and we’re going to get that down to minutes. She’s learning that fast. One of the things that we added to Angel, is make a wish. So, if you go to Angel, and you make a wish, and say, I wish you could do my laundry for me, but she can’t be a laundry for you. I’m sorry.
[David] But you can ask it, you can make it requests for it to do different things.
[Pavan] Right? You say, I wish he could do the tax returns for me, so we added this, make a wish feature. So we’re collecting people’s wishes and then we’re going to set her agenda based on that. And accordingly, we’re going to direct her to learn certain things. So like a wish was made on Monday. Somebody made a wish for payday loans that I wish Angel could do payday loans because payday loans really robbed the poor, right? They take 30% of your paycheck. So someone made that wish into Angel and we looked at it. Oh my god. This is such a great idea, such a need. We can help so many people, we can help people get out of this cycle of poverty and being, their money taken from them from, I believe, Hey, no offense to the payday lenders out there may be listening, but I think, it’s too high a cost. It’s useless.
[David] It’s just useless. I can see that because I own the podcast, but the bottom line is in my opinion, the payday loans and CFPB has been looking at that with a very critical eye and there has been action. There’ll be more action I predict. Because of how it is injuring the ones by this process. So that’s outstanding. But that’s a great example of Make a Wish. That’s what, so you have that as a new feature that’s gonna be coming out?
[Pavan] Yeah, we have new feature, we have financial planning. Basically AI will do the financial planning for you. It will plan out how you can get out of debt quickly. We got insurance coming out, we got credit card, we got an Angel AI, a black Angel AI credit card will be out this year. We got a decentralized finance. Built in secure wallet in Angel AI. It’s in beta right now, we’re testing it and I’m reviewing it, it’s so freaking cool. So you’ll be able to keep your money in Angel AI. So, here’s why this is so big. So Chase, there was an article, I think Wall Street Journal had an article about Chase. They just raised their fees for checking accounts. So that means to put your money with a bank, they will charge you, taking your money to keep your money with the bank. Think about that.
[David] No more paying interest. They’re not charging you.
[Pavan] First of all, when you get charged for your checking account, who does that hurt the most? as a percentage of income, it hurts the poor. It hurts the people who need a hand up, right? The big banks are pulling you down, their hand is pulling you down instead of lifting you up. Okay, and I want to solve that with technology. We have the technology today between AI and blockchain technology, where you can control your money and keep your money securely in your wallet. That’s the goal. That’s what we’re building up to. Now full disclosure, blockchain technology and secure decentralized finance isn’t to the point yet where you can eliminate your checking account. Okay, but Angel AI’s wallet and decentralization is a massive leap forward to that and my prediction is that in the next three years, no one will need a bank account. You will keep your money in your secure wallet. And you’ll be able to transact with each other by simply moving that from your secure wallet to the other secure wallet. So, no one’s going to charge you. No one’s going to charge you money for holding onto your own money. Keep your money in your own wallet.
[David] That’s amazing. The podcast I recorded just before this one, we were talking about the importance of having a decentralized system and that in itself sounds like that is creating additional risk, but that doesn’t, the centralized system is what we have now with the federal reserve and the fiat currency, and there’s nothing more unsecure than our current system. And we go to a blockchain decentralized. We have a hope to get control of our finances and control of our wealth and be able to hold on to it. I applaud you for the vision. I want to just do a little bit of a rabbit trail here. Because I think I had the privilege of meeting and knowing your data. Dad, your dad was a mentor to me early in my career, 40 years ago, I’ve been in the mortgage industry for 50 years. Your dad was a mentor and very much what I hear you talking about Pavan was so much of the values of your dad. And I just want to honor him right now, because it is one of those things to have found someone that spoke into my life. He was firm. Growing up under Hari would been, it wasn’t easy because he was firm. Go figure it out. Do this, do that. It was a tough love, but it was clearly love and he cared deeply about his customers and he wanted to do what was right. And that was the thing he says, Dave, we could do it that way, but that’s not what’s right. What we’re going to do is we’re going to do it this way because it’s the right way to do it. And I just love that. Big shout out. HARI. So I always called him Harry. You call him dirty Harry. I hope he’s listening somewhere and hearing this. I want to honor him because amazing man and he did a great job instilling these values in you. I love what you’re doing. I have so many people calling me since I’ve gotten to know you. And since I started championing you and what you’re doing, so many people going, Dave, he’s going to put us out of business. Do you realize what you’re doing? You’re championing about something that’s putting us out of business. And that is a narrow interpretation, very narrow. You make angel AI available to the entire industry. Every mortgage professional has access to it for free. Every real estate professional has access for free and now consumers have access to it for free. Tell me what’s wrong with that vision. This is helping people. And what people do is they get threatened by this because what you’re disturbing is this distributive system that we have right now, where everyone’s got their hands on the pot. And yes, this is going to be disruptive. Yes. This is going to change the landscape of our industry and many other industries in the financial service. So I’m going to be on this right there alongside you, cheering you on and help you get this message out in the proper context, but it is causing for some disconsternation with people that are viewing what you’re doing, Pavan, to your critics, what would you say?
[Pavan] The whole world has changed, ever since blockchain technology came out with, and the first Bitcoin, whatever 15 years ago on Satoshi’s paper, which if you haven’t read Satoshi’s paper, please read Satoshi’s paper. That’s the first place to start going to understand blockchain tech and where the real vision of this is. And giving a product like this out for free and getting it in people’s hand, it is the foundation. I’m establishing a worldwide. It’s not just an American movement. This is a worldwide global movement. I’m being invited by different countries to participate in their AI initiatives. Okay, and their blockchain initiatives. This is a different story. That’d be a discussion for another podcast. We’ve gone on that rabbit hole. But this is a worldwide movement and a worldwide brand. So that financial services and finance and money can finally get to everyone’s hands. And this is the meaning of a distributed open protocol. Okay? And that’s what we’re delivering. And so the way I see it is by giving all this away for free, because guess I’ve already spent the money. It’s already been invested. I, God was so nice to me, right? That over the years he empowered me to do the mortgage business and I helped a lot of people. And he also was generous and gave me a lot of money in that process. Okay. And while I was making money, I was building angel AI.
[David] Right? Yeah. That’s the thing I want to underscore. This is not a private equity funded project where you have other people on it. You’ve been funding this out of SunWest earnings. And you set up a recently, a new corporation, a Celligence, which is based in San Juan, Puerto Rico area, where you’re based for obvious reasons, the expat allows the tax advantages for that again, is creates all kinds of advantages for you. I’ve had the privilege of staying there in your home and meeting your whole family and all your friends in the Puerto Rican community. It’s just wonderful. But you’re doing so much and trying to help people lift the bar, again to the critics. You’re saying what?
[Pavan] You know what? I don’t listen to the critics. I don’t know what to say to them. I speak to the people I help. And so, for those people, Celligence, my tech company, I started out 11 years ago in Puerto Rico. And I’m doing a couple of things. Number one, I’m hiring a lot of local Puerto Rico talent and which is so much needed on the island.
[David] Yeah, you employ hundreds and hundreds of people there in Puerto Rico.
[Pavan] Yes. We employ, I think, close to 200 people in Puerto Rico. And a lot of engineers here, a lot of great talent and we’re keeping the talent within the island and within the economy. And this is I think if I’m not mistaken, I think we’re the first major like international tech product to be made and built in Puerto Rico and come out. So it fills up, inspires and fills a lot of pride within Puerto Rico for this product. And we have the island is behind us and it feels great. Usually a product like this will come out of Silicon Valley, but no, this one came out of Puerto Rico. So that’s super exciting. Number two, is like I said, God was so kind that he gave us money all along these years that we helped so many people in the mortgages. And he encouraged me to build this technology for so many years, for decades. So, I used that money to build this technology. So at this point, it’s paid for, I see it as a gift from God, right? Yeah. God gave it to me. It’s a gift. And if I was not to get it out there in a way to help the maximum number of people, I would be violating his will, and it would fail. That’s number two, number three, right? It is obviously it’s a business, right? And if I want to keep this thing sustainable, this is a multigenerational brand. So global multigenerational brand, and only way to make that sustainable is to make profits. It’s a basic rule of economics. You have to have profits, right? Every biological system, every system in the world that functions that last is always a trade. It’s always an economic trade, right? So, in this case for angel AI, I’m building a international marketplace, a distributed, decentralized financial marketplace at an international scale. Obviously, right now, the focus is on the US market, but this is very quickly going to be is in the process of being extended to multiple jurisdictions. My patents are filed all across the world. My trademarks are filed all across the world. And I have to remind people like that. We have seven patents. AI patents awarded. We have two academic papers written. A third one is about to come out like a major academic papers, meaning peer reviewed major scientific journals. We publish these things our researchers have and so I can deliver now with AI and decentralized finance. I can deliver microfinance to the remotest corners of Africa, right? or the the McDonald’s worker in Little Rock, Arkansas, who needs a payday loan, right? That’s the microfinance, a form of microfinance. He no longer has to pay 1/3 of his paycheck. To get that cash he needs for that medical bill or whatever. Because again, back to the payday lenders, I can’t blame them in a sense because their cost is so high because they have all that infrastructure and all that staff right now with a chat system, the beauty of a chat system is it works everywhere, right? Whether you have 3g, 4g, 5g, a chat, you can chat with it. It’s so easy, right? You just send a little message. Hey, I need a payday loan. Then everyone has a phone. Everyone has a basic phone, even a, this will work even on a $10 phone. The village in Africa, this will work. This will work in Los Angeles or New York. It’ll work everywhere. I sent a simple chat. I need a payday loan. It’ll ask you some questions. And the money will be put into your, right now it’ll be put into your bank account. In the future, it’ll be put into your secure wallet and completely decentralized. Think about how much value we could do and because the AI doing it, our cost is a fraction, a tiny amount of what it costs current payday lenders. So I can pass that savings on to the customers. Now the customers have real micro finance, real lending, real access to money. Now they can lift their lives up and go up and save money. So you start off with a payday loan. Then we give them financial planning help, we help them with the credit, next thing they’re buying a house for people who are paying 1/3 of the paycheck to paycheck, just to survive. I’m now saving money. Building a life, owning a home, owning a piece of America, ending the cycle of poverty and establishing generational wealth.
[David] It gets so exciting, when I hear about this, it does just gets so exciting about the potential of what this could do and where we could find ourselves.
[Pavan] Yeah. And the more immediate, and this is the really big, exciting invention that we created. So two months ago, I think it was two, maybe three months ago, I put a video out and you’ll find it on my YouTube channel or on my social media feed. I put a video with Shane Mosley, seven times world champion boxer, such a great guy, the friend of mine, and he moved here too. He lives here in Puerto Rico now. I trained Angel AI on all of his content, we ran a bot and went through and found everything about him on the internet. And overnight we was trained. And Shane and I sat down and you can go into right now You can go into Angel AI right now and ask any questions about Shane Mosley. And it knows everything about Shane Mosley that’s publicly available. Basically we have a Shane Mosley avatar in Angel AI and anyone can now have their own avatar.
[David] That’s where I want to go. See, avatars have been coming out and this personalized, we’re talking about personalization of a financial transaction with AI there. And that gets really exciting. I watched a avatar that you sent me this morning and then I saw your avatar. It’s amazing where this thing’s at and talk about the avatar. You brought that up.
[Pavan] Let me tell you how it works, it’s not officially released yet. It’s going to look for the press release. It’ll be out within 30 days tops. So there’s two levels. The free version is text only. you’ll be able to say, ask any questions. How many children does David Lykken have and where does he live? Assuming that’s public information or, what color is David’s hair? Does he have hair? So, you’ll be able to chat with Angel and ask all these questions that he does publicly available. She’ll answer right and now David you can go into Angel and you can give her like any other social media platform. You can give her more information about yourself, right? And you get to curate it. You get to say, Hey, you know what? I don’t want you talking about this. You could tell it to remove stuff. So you control right? I want you, every single person to own their own data. Let’s put this in perspective.
[David] But does that open the door for fraud into a degree? Data can be manipulated by the person that’s there.
[Pavan] You can only control your own data. It’s your statement about yourself.
[David] Oh, I see. So all this stuff that’s also out there about you related to you, you’re not changing that. That’s an important distinction where we’re talking about here.
[Pavan] Yeah. So it’ll be your data that you keep. And when our secured decentralized wallet is out, it’ll be stored in your wallet on the blockchain. it’s yours, and other people can interact with it. Think about this. Other people can interact with it. So you as a loan officer, a realtor, you can just direct, we’re trademarking Angel Me. You can text me or call me, Angel Me. And they can talk to your avatar by text, they Angel Me.
[David] Let’s talk about the possibilities of what this means because we’re talking about a loan officer, a realtor that is wanting to communicate with a consumer. That’s right there. So they can type in a text there. Is it going to get to the point where I can speak into it rather than have to do the keyboard? Is it? Yeah. I’ve heard keyboards are going away. Would you subscribe to that?
[Pavan] Yes, to a large extent. And right now, you can speak in Angel right now. Just hit the microphone button on your cell phone. You just speak into it and that’s the way I use it all the time. I just speak to it. I had a loan officer that drove from Dallas to Louisiana or New Orleans in his Tesla, right? and he had Angel open on the Tesla screen, now you’re not supposed to do this. And that’s why he would remain nameless. I don’t encourage this, while he was driving, he was talking to Angel on the Tesla getting loans done.
[David] Now, here’s the thing. So, you’re talking to it now when you’re working with a borrower, if you’re a mortgage loan originator and you’re talking to a borrower, if you’re talking to a realtor, give me status. With the avatar, explain what is now possible.
[Pavan] With the avatar, first thing you do is you create an Angel twin and we call it an Angel twin that would be taking all your data, everything about you, and then everything that you give it, plus if you go into Angel and you’re a realtor and you create a listing on Angel, now it sucks in that information, knows that it’s your listing, right? And you create a custom Angel landing page, it sucks in all that information, but anything you give it learns on the fly. Step two, when you create the Angel twin, you create a likeness of you. So you, like right now I’m looking at you. Except it’s AI generated and you talking to the customer. So, imagine on the listing website, it’s you, an AI version, AI avatar of you talking, lips moving, eyes and expressions and everything happening at the same time as real as possible, it’s you talking to a potential home buyer and they can talk to you, but it’s really Angel that they’re talking to, but they’re talking to your avatar asking questions about the property, asking questions about you. They’re getting to know you through your avatar.
[David] I’ve been looking at avatars for some time, looking at the potential and power of this and when LLM Large Language Models started coming in and with AI, and It is putting this on steroids and what this can do. Now this scares some people, Pavan. They’re just get terrified of it. And I only have one statement to say to them, get over it, figure out how to embrace it because it’s coming, whether you’re afraid of it or not. People are afraid of cars. Remember the saying many years ago that if the human travels faster than 60 miles an hour, they’re going to come apart.
[Pavan] Back in the 18, late 1800s, when automobiles first came out, they passed a law that a person had to walk with the red flag in front of the automobile to warn people that automobile is coming, and that’s so silly but we’re seeing this kind of legislation. It’s just paranoia with AI, it’s still in the works, but, I’m not sure if I’m supposed to say this, but I’ll say it anyways and might get in trouble. I’ve been invited to the RNC to speak at one of their AI panels. And to talk about the future of AI, right? And so now I’m not partisan at all. I’m trying to get the same invitation. But if I can get a chance to speak and speak to a group of experts and policymakers. On either side of the aisle. I’m going to take it. I’m not going to pass that up.
[David] Not only is that going on here locally, and you alluded to this earlier, we’ll do a whole another podcast now, but other countries, leaders of other countries, Presidents of other nations are reaching out to you saying, Pavan, we’re seeing what you’re doing. We hear your vision. You were the President of the judges at the Cannes Film Festival. People got to meet you and they’re now inviting you into their countries to speak, you’re going to be soon invited. I believe this be speaking in Saudi Arabia. I think there’s a possibility of that all over. We’re going back to sovereign nations is what I see. We’re going to see strengthening of the sovereign nations, but we’re going to have a financial system that crosses all the nations is one of the things I’m predicting. And I think that’s what gets so exciting.
[Pavan] I take it one step further. I don’t even believe in sovereign nations. I believe in sovereign families. Why can’t we go back to families and empower families and give people the tools so they can be independent and live the way they want to live. Your family should live the way your family wants to live, not because of what somebody on TV dictates what your values should be. You should be able to make your own values, and you can’t make your own values but live according to your own values and your own judgment. If someone else controls the purse strings. If someone else is controlling your money, and you don’t even have your money, then you cannot live the way you feel best, and you cannot raise your children the way you feel best. Let’s get financial power down to the families and the family unit, and you can only do that with decentralization and blockchain technology and AI that helps get you access to the global capital markets infrastructure. You have basically this big divide. You have global capital markets over here, which is low cost money and cheap money, lots of it. And then you have family units over here, which are paying 30% of the paycheck to get a payday loan. And because there’s nothing to bridge that divide. There’s this divide here. There’s nothing to bridge that and these guys really so desperately want to get the money to you over here on 123 Main Street. They want to get you the money so that you can use their money, but they can’t figure out how to do it. So that’s where AI technology, that’s where Angel AI comes in, it’s a shortcut straight down from the top, from the global capital market, straight down from there, to you, at the lowest possible cost, getting you the money, and when we do that, guess what, this divide, which is, light years apart, will become inches apart, as this technology cements. And it comes in place and that’s true democratization, when families can take care of themselves And you’re not dependent on somebody else taking care of you when you can take care of yourself when you take care of your own finance when you take care of your own protection that’s democracy. That’s what I believe that the founding fathers were all about. That’s why the second amendment, I’m getting political here, sorry, but that’s what the second amendment was about. It’s to protect and take care of yourself without being dependent on the king or the government or somebody else to take care of for you.
[David] And you’re singing some of my favorite songs right there. The key walkaways listeners from this interview today with Pavan and Pavan, I’m so excited for you to give me so much time. almost an hour has flown by Pavan, we hardly get started and things just start happening here. One of the things that I want our listeners to walk away from, first of all, you need to start studying this. You need to overcome the fear, because this is coming, whether you’re ready for it or not. I was at the US blockchain conference in Santa Clara about a month ago, and I was overwhelmed Pavan, with all the initiatives going on blockchain is going to be literally taking tokenization of things. There’s a whole lot of topic. We’re going to be getting into that more and more to educate our podcast listeners on this topic. And I want you back so much, but I applaud what you’re doing. What I’m walking away from this podcast on is the power of distribution, distributive processing. And decentralization listeners pay attention to that. Understand the power of that.
[Pavan] Yeah. Distributed ledger technology. DLT. That’s what Satoshi’s paper was all about. How two people can create, keep their own ledgers, but still agree and eliminate the possibility of fraud. And that’s what a blockchain is all about. And then, and you take that and you add AI to it so that you get intelligent decision making, distributed intelligent decision making. And then you add another layer, which is data, which is you own your own data and you have rights to your own data. It’s on the blockchain. So to put this in perspective. The data that Google has on you, which you’ve just given away to Google or by using it, that is worth $60,000. They monetize each person’s data at $60,000 a person. That’s why Google is a trillion dollar company. So what I want to do is what we’re working on is getting that data to you and store it on a blockchain and it’s yours. And then you can then lease it to AI companies and search engines and whatever else. So they can use that data to provide intelligent solutions. So there’s all of this combination of things, all this technology that’s come together, And all that technology is I understand it all and I’m, and I’ve got the roadmap when we’re building it piece by piece and go back to what you said is you’re saying that it’s so complicated in my mind, I can already see it because I can already see it as I saw this years ago. To me, it seems so simple. Yeah, of course, it’s just like A to B and C and there it is. It’s done. So, the way I run the engineering team is like it doesn’t seem complicated. It’s so simple to me and then as it’s time to work on the next interconnection of the next component, I’ll talk to the engineer or the engineers that are working that we’ve selected to work on that. And I’ll tell them, okay, go build this. And this is how I want you to build and go build it and then go build it. Okay. And then the next team, I said, go build this. So each engineer is building each component. And for me, it’s easy to keep in my head and I don’t have a problem figuring that out.
[David] Yeah it’s really amazing. As I look at it, how you’re designing this piece by piece, it’s coming together. It seems like there’s an intelligent design behind it beyond even yours. And so it’s pretty exciting to see what’s happening. Alright, we’ve got to wrap this up. I’ve got another interview. Oh no, I don’t have another interview. This is the third interview I’ve done today for podcasting. I’ve got one that’s a prep call for another interview. We’re having people because of the success and the size of our growing audience, it is just extraordinary to see the number of people knocking on our door wanting to be on here. And I’m telling you, I’m giving you more and more time and space on this. You come up with any idea. I’m telling Pavan, you come on, you talk about it. All right, please. Any final thoughts as we wrap up this interview today?
[Pavan] Yes, David. And the final thought is stay healthy. I was traveling so much this week, eating all this junk food. So, I’m now 24 hours into a 72 hour fast. And I got to look good for Sunday because Sunday is Copa America day of Champions, and we got the finals this Sunday, we got the finals for Euro, which is England versus Spain, and Copa America, which is going to be Colombia versus Argentina. These are two huge games. We’re expecting 50 million plus impressions on one day about Angel AI pre-credit repair. So I gotta detox, get ready for that. So I’m gonna fast from now until Monday morning about 72 hours. I’m already 24 hours in. Super exciting. I’m feeling great. I love it when I fast, I ate all this heavy cheesy food last week. It tasted so good.
[David] Yeah. You were in Texas. So part of that was enjoying that good old Texas we had around here. I love fast, it gives power.
[Pavan] And mindset summit August 1st. Don’t miss Mindset Summit. Go to mindset summit.com is one of our partners. The last one, the reason I was in Texas and Dallas, it was a smash hit. One of our speakers was, is the number one realtor in the country. He himself did 3,200 closings last year. One person did 3,200 closings.
[David] One realtor did 3,200 closings. Wow.
[Pavan] And to show you how mysteriously God works, the way God works. It all started like 20 years ago. He was driving through California and he picked up a hitchhiker and helped a guy out whose bike had broken. And that led to his career taking off and now he’s 3,200 deals he did last year. Again, it goes back to if you help, if your heart is pure and you do it without any expectation. God looks out for you. Just listen to him, listen to the universe. Everything will work out. My friends.
[David] It’s so good to have you on. Can’t wait to have you back Pavan. This is exciting journey. And even though it’s been going on for 24, 25 years, it’s still just begun or where it’s going to go. Thank you. Pavan sharing your dream, your vision and your values. Appreciate it.
[Pavan] Thank you David, cheers!
Important Links
- Sunwest Mortgage
- Angel AI website
- LinkedIn – Pavan Agarwal
- Angel AI with Pavan Agarwal Part 1
- Angel AI with Pavan Agarwal Part 2
- From Vision to Reality: Pavan Agarwal on Transforming Mortgage Lending with Angel AI
Pavan Agarwal is a renowned leader in the mortgage lending industry and a pioneer in bringing artificial intelligence to the financial markets. Agarwal serves as the President and CEO of Sun West Mortgage Company and Celligence International, LLC.