In this episode, we delve into Pavan’s inspiring story, starting from his roots and the vision instilled in him by his father, the legendary mortgage lender Hari Agarwal. We’ll explore the genesis of Angel AI, a revolutionary tool that’s automating and streamlining the mortgage process like never before. As we discuss Pavan’s relentless pursuit of innovation, the challenges and triumphs along the way, and his unwavering commitment to making a positive impact on the industry and beyond. We’ll also touch on his latest groundbreaking initiative—free credit repair for all—and the incredible growth and adoption of Angel AI. This episode is packed with insights, anecdotes, and forward-thinking ideas that will surely leave you inspired and excited about the future of mortgage lending.
From Vision to Reality: Pavan Agarwal on Transforming Mortgage Lending with Angel AI with Pavan Agarwal of SunWest Mortgage
[David] Listeners, I’m really excited to have one of our sponsors come back, but it’s way more than just a sponsorship. This is a friendship that has developed into something that is really meaningful to me, and I’m so grateful to have Pavan Agarwal joining us again on the podcast. Pavan, good to have you back.
[Pavan] Good to have you. You caught me when I’m in Vegas.
[David] I’m looking at that view as for those that are looking at the video of this, I’ve had that same view out the windows of the Wind Hotel. And so I reckon as soon as you came on camera, I go, I recognize that. Are you at the Wind? And you said, yes, I am. So what brings you to Las Vegas? What do you do in Las Vegas?
[Pavan] We just sponsored the World Series Of Poker. We sponsored several of the big players. It was an exciting day yesterday, Bruce Buffer, one of the players that we sponsored. He went in and $50,000. He went bust and we gave him another $50,000 and then he just shot straight up and it’s all about chip stack, but he had the minimum chip stack where other people got millions of dollars in tips. He got like nothing. And then he went in and he destroyed everyone, got all the way to the Eighth position and on the final table, these are the best of the best players and who had 10 times a bigger chip stack and he destroyed them and he made it all the way to eighth position and won a bunch of money. So regrettably, he didn’t win the whole 2 million jackpot, but he still won a bunch of money. So it all worked out great.
[David] That gets me to a question. We have seen you at Cannes Film Festival. We seen you traveling around the world. We’re seeing so much of you traveling around. It seems like you’re a global trendsetter out there doing what you’re doing. And I’d love to get into your vision, Pavan, because I met you, as the story goes, many people know this, but I’m gonna repeat it again real quickly. I met you when you were 11 years old, when I was selling loans to your dad. And you came down the hall with your skateboard popped into your dad’s office and sat down there and your dad said, Dave, he said I want you to meet my son, Pavan. He’s a computer savant. I jokingly would teased him and said anyone who can turn out a computer is probably a savant. Hari, because you and I are both not that adapt to it. And he said, no, he really is. I said what do you mean? He says he just wrote a program to calculate the APR calculation for our loan officers, the first company to do that. And I looked over at you and I go, how long did it take you? Oh, a couple of days. But by the time we got it, the code written and everything released out, it’s probably a couple of weeks. And then I knew your dad was not exaggerating. You were. Lost touch with you. And then you and I reconnected a year ago now. In San Antonio, you were speaking at a conference. I’d heard all about this angel AI. And I kept hearing about this development as it is the coming thing. It is the newest. It’s the best. It’s taking over the world. Russ Anderson, who is consulting with me at the time and says, Dave, I can’t consult with you anymore. I’m going to go to work for Pavan. This is so exciting. Jack Nunnery, dear friend, told me about it, Morgan AI days. I’m trying to create a little bit of a story here for people that I’d heard about you but I did not connect it back to the 11 year old that I met in your dad’s office. It wasn’t until we were talking over dinner. And I said, wait a minute, your last name is Agarwal. Did you know a guy by name of Hari? Oh, we referred to him as Harry and you go, yeah, that was my dad. And I started sharing stories. Your dad was a mentor to me. The character, the class and the brilliance that he had as a mortgage lender was just exemplary. And I’m so grateful to your dad and now to be in relationship with you and realizing that we met, 44 years ago is quite an interesting story, but I want to get into your vision Pavan. You captured something. A need in our industry of how archaic we have been operating. I’ve been in the industry for over 50 years. We’ve been archaic. That’ll, we’ve added some computers technology. I’ve created a software company that went public. That was one of the first LOSs, but we’re still doing things, we have been doing things until you came along pretty archaically, pretty much the way it’s always been. Let’s start with what was your vision? And I want to then fast forward to what is your vision now, but what was it that got you so motivated to do this?
[Pavan] I’m going to start with a slight correction. We didn’t call him Harry. And the irony of that is a little five foot three inch Indian man who weighs less than a Magnum 44 that dirty Harry would actually carry around. It was the perfect name for him. But, the vision and it is serendipity that we happen to be recording this podcast with the sphere behind me because we’re hoping to have Angel AI up on the sphere next month. Yeah, we had it up last month or just a few weeks ago. We had it up on the biggest billboard in Vegas, which is on the Resort World screen, which is the biggest single screen in Vegas. So, next month we’re trying to work out a deal where we’ll have it up on the sphere. So let’s see if that comes true. You heard it first here at Lykken on Lending, Angel AI on the sphere. Hopefully it happens. We’ll see. Yeah,
[David] Where did this all start? What was it that got you started? and then I want to get into what you’re doing promotionally. You’re everywhere. You go into Las Vegas, you see it on the biggest buildings there, Angel AI. We’re soon going to see it in the sphere. But this all started with you having a vision to transform this industry. Tell us the genesis of all this?
[Pavan] Yeah it’s not so much my vision as it was Dirty Harry’s vision, which You know, as he did loans himself by hand all those years, he’d always tell me, you gotta fix this. Look how easy it is. You can automate it. There’s a right for a computer program to automate this thing that it shouldn’t require so much manual labor, right? And that was the directive. And so, the vision was always to find a way to automate it and going back to 1985. And the only way that it made sense to automate, it was artificial intelligence. And yes, artificial intelligence did exist back then and a lot of the algorithms, lot of the theory, the mathematics is not much materially different than what it was back in 1985. It’s just that the computing power has caught up to the mathematics. That’s the hard part.
[David] Yeah, that’s so significant to rebuild by saying, cause AI has, like you said, been around since I think it started in the 50’s, actually, is where did someone coined the first point in the artificial intelligence.
[Pavan] Oh, actually it was called machine learning back then. And actually, arguably they dig my machine, which was used in world war two, they’re going back to the forties. That’s a form of machine learning as well. And actually, I’m sorry they used to call it pattern recognition. And we can go down the rabbit hole. We can talk about how the Enigma machine works, which is fascinating. It’s a mechanical computer and mechanical artificial intelligence, but it was artificial intelligence. Yeah.
[David] It’s great to talk about the history, one of the things I love about your dad and it’s been picked up by you and you to have this is you’re not doing this selfishly. You’re giving away Angel AI to anybody who wants to use it for free. and that’s just staggering. I want to go back to what is it that your dad said was the catalyst and gave you the instructions to go out there, the assignment automate this. And so you went to work on it. You saw that artificial intelligence was a solution. But a little bit quickly without getting into the weeds too much the journey that you have been on to do so.
[Pavan] The journey was, so I wrote my first artificial intelligence based program to do a little bit of simple decisioning in the mortgage industry back in 1985 and it was just a very simple program to do that and I realized that this takes way too much computing power, way more than what existed to do anything in scale, anything that’s meaningful because what I built back then was regulatory, it didn’t really be useful so I said, you know what, but I realized that you need a lot of data, so I said, let me first focus on the data architecture, let’s build a solid data architecture, a solid data foundation, a design engineer that, and then I said, eventually, the competing power will catch up. I just didn’t realize it would take 40 years to catch up, but eventually it did catch up.
[David] Yeah. It’s taking a long time to get there, but it’s there. Yeah. and but you started working on a data set, and I think that’s a really important part because that distinguishes you from others who are approaching it from a programming standpoint. You started looking at the data. Get into that just a little bit. Explain what you mean by that. For those that are not aware.
[Pavan] Yeah. Back in the day, you had, and I think regrettably, there’s still some companies these days that have those bankers boxes full of loan files, canceled and closed and whatever, and they’re stored away in a trailer someplace, right? And that was the norm. And those banker files, it’s so much information in there. Okay so what I did was design a database that captured almost everything in there. And whatever it didn’t capture, whatever we designed back in the 80s and 90s that it didn’t capture then, we definitely capture it now. So when you have all that data, data isn’t just about having it, it’s about organizing it. That’s the hard part. Like every most company in the world today has the data, but is it organized? is it accessible? Is it in a way that AI can digest it? So if you design your data structures in a way that is designed for AI, as the technology has matured, you can plug it in quickly. If you haven’t designed it, which no one else has done that, then you have this long road ahead of you and you got to hire all these data scientists and all this sort of stuff to figure out how to get the data in an organized manner so that can be digested by AI.
[David] But that’s where you started with an intelligent design or a way to organize it with AI in mind, knowing that’s coming at some point.
[Pavan] So we started off with data. And for the advantage of getting involved in artificial intelligence in the 80’s and when I went to engineering school, some deep serious classes, graduate level classes in machine learning. So everything I built was built for this purpose. And the technology that I’ve been building, I’ve been building for a long time. And so the data I’ve been collecting has been for a long time. And so in late 2018 or early 2019, we ran our first end to end loan through which is what today is called Angel AI. Back then we didn’t have a name for it. We just had the product working and we just called it Virtual Assist. So we ran the first end to end loan through this thing where you can chat with it and it would spit out answers and get your loan done completely end to end, right? And obviously the first version of this had a lot of exceptions where a lot of things that the AI can’t decide, escalate to human where, you know, maybe back then it was whatever 50% exceptions. I don’t know the number off and but let’s say 50% exceptions in 2018, 2019 to now it’s less than 5% exception that gets great for human intervention. Our goal is to get that down from 5% to 0.1%. And I’m pretty sure we’re going to have that achieved this year. We’re very rapidly heading through that path. So the point is you can type any question. Or give it any document, as complex attack returns. There’s only bank statement. And the AI on his own will read all that. Understand it all. It’s the right context and give you an answer. Like a real short yet exact answer. That’s the hard part. Is keeping it short and understandable. You don’t want to bunch of text spitting out. You want it. Simple. Get to the point. And you want it exact, because we all know the attention span of bankers, and bankers and real estate agents have very short attention spans. They want answer that’s short and a precise answer. So what angel AI does, the answer that it gives, it’s so precise and so reliable that I put my money behind it, I put my money where my mouth is, and I stand behind it. I will warrant that, that if it gets it wrong. I would fund that loan anyway.
[David] Wow. That’s a bold statement when you realized that the kind of volume that you’re starting to do through the system as a potential.
[Pavan] I wouldn’t say starting to do. Since you’ve been doing this for a while, that’s a good point. Yeah. We put over 200,000 loans through it.
[David] You’ve already put 200,000 loans through angel AI. What now is angel AI? A lot of people suspect, I’m thinking of one particular vendor, which is out there puts himself out there as an AI company. And when investors came in to look at it, they found out that they have a bunch of people in another country working behind the curtain, rendering the decisions and a lot of people say Pavan’s roots are from India. He must have a whole bunch of people behind the curtain doing the same thing. And I want to dispel that because as you have told me at different times, you’ve used different people to validate the processes as you’re going through it, that is just a categorical misrepresentation and not today at all factual. Explain to the people. How did you get to that point where you’re going to achieve this year? 0.01%,
[Pavan] We hope to have it under one tenth of a major 10 basis points. So that’s the goal this year. So let’s talk about how AI works a little bit. Again, AI is it’s all about data. And so as data is coming through and the AI is making decisions, it’s going to have a confidence score. It’s either really high, over 90, 95%, whatever. We do establish a threshold and I don’t remember offhand, like 95% that the confidence has to be, if it’s above that, then it goes straight to the customer, whatever customer at, if it’s below it, then a human has to intervene and double check. Okay. Now I can let everything that’s below 95% go through, and then I’ll ChatPT because then, I have to issue a warning that Hey, don’t rely on these answers, but that’s the hard part, right? So what we design and the magic of angel AI and responses from the AI are monitored by human in real time and very fast, right? It’s one thing to monitor the response. Second, you got to do it. And it’s definitely fast manner so that the customer doesn’t feel long delay. That’s the whole science is the whole academic area of research called augmented intelligence. You can Google that the technical term for it. Okay. And so that’s what we’re doing. And, right now we’re hitting over two messages a second. Okay. There isn’t a human being in the world. Capable of infinite scalability. This can go to 200 messages a second. I’m pushing marketing as hard as possible. I get this thoroughput to the maximum. So there isn’t a human being in the world I can even do one message a second. I can just talk about one message a minute. So this is what happens as the exception rate falls, the thoroughput increases. And at above 95% exception rate or approval rate then, the thoroughput is going to go higher and higher. So we have right now at two messages a second going through this thing, right? We have about less than 10 people, I think it’s eight or nine people that are monitoring in real time the chat conversations, all the chat conversations all the time. Wow. And yes, they’re in India. They’re offshore. I’ve been doing this a long time and I’m very clear from the very first presentation I did on this years ago, I made it clear that it’s augmented intelligence, there’s people involved in it, and it has to be, because it has to be right. Okay. So it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, like if you are the customer and What I say is, let’s just say there’s no AI, right? Hypothetically, let’s say there’s no AI, but it’s getting through. I got a million people doing processing messages two messages a second, right? You can imagine how many people that would take and we’re talking about tens of thousands of messages a day are going through this thing, right? And so if you stop and think if you have the customer, you can get this service that going to give you the answers exactly right with a warranty. Do you care whether it’s AI or Indian or Martian.
[David] You’re getting accurate answers to the extremely fast pace, who cares what’s behind the curtain. But what you’re saying is it is being done by the AI. There are people monitoring that. Obviously you’re guaranteeing the results to be accurate. So of course, if I had my money on the line that much, I would be having some activity, but it doesn’t slow it down and the fact that it’s almost.
[Pavan] It’s a couple of corrections. Number one, the attorneys make me stay warranty, not guaranteed.
[David] Okay. That’s true. That’s right. Warranty that guarantee. Yeah, that’s good.
[Pavan] And the second is, no it does slow it down because when there’s an exception. When the AI doesn’t understand something that a human has to intervene, so it does slow it down. So sometimes you’ll response instantaneously. Sometimes it might take a minute or two and sometimes it’ll give you an ERA depending on the level of the exception.
[David] The complexity of it. Yeah. Exactly.
[Pavan] Like recently we were at a trade show. One of our customers walked up to us and gave us testimonial. And she said, I’ve been using it for over a year. She’s a mortgage broker and she said, yeah, I don’t care. Sometimes it’ll take five minutes to give me an answer, but I don’t care because I usually, I can’t even get ahold of my AE for five minutes. I have to wait five hours for my AE to call me back and I just put this in there and five minutes later I get a text message with a response. I was like, she’s this is the best thing ever.
[David] It’s a great point. Yeah. I saw that testimonial. There are so many amazing testimonials. Listeners, check out the links we’re putting into this podcast show notes that are some of the testimonials. We’ve run two interviews, full interviews, which we’ll also put in there. Nancy Bayat and also Jennifer Martinez both, which are using this, and they started out as naysayers and I think many do, and I think a healthy skepticism is a healthy way to approach this because it’s something that is new, it’s coming out. So they both started out if not skeptical downright negative way, and you have won them over and again. Listeners go listen to that. But what is the resistance? You think, why do people have this skepticism about this? Is it a fear Pavan that’s out there? We’re starting to go into psychology a little bit here.
[Pavan] If you look at the sphere behind us, right? if you were to turn back the clock, even to the 1990s, or even, 2000s, right? And say, we’re going to make these giant, gigantic, spherical, 3D billboards. And you can watch the entire movie on it. It’s all in 3D and things are going to come flying at you and stuff. And you’re going to think that’s science fiction. Something that’s 10 stories tall, perfect sphere, right? And that sounds like something out of Blade Runner or something. But here we are in 2024. It’s real, it’s right here behind us, okay? And so that’s the thing. It’s what Angel AI does sounds like science fiction. So people automatically say, it’s either they don’t believe it, right? Immediately you’ll say, a giant sphere that’s 3d hologram coming out of it. No, No such thing cannot exist. Okay. But it does exist. It’s the same thing. It’s something I just chat with and it’s going to give me an answer, that is always right. And if it’s wrong, there’s somebody with real money behind it. Nah, it’s not possible. You mean I could give it, a 550 credit score FHA borrow with 20 job changes and whatever, 1099 income and this and that, and they’ll figure it out as a yet. It will. And they’ll do it fast. And so this first is disbelief. Second is then once you get past that disbelief and you see it and then you start feeling uncomfortable by it. Then I see the next stage is it’s just going to replace me is this, how is this possible that there must be, yeah, there must be squirrels back there that must be people offshore doing it, most people in you’re doing it must be Martians. It must be something right. And so that’s the second layer of objection to get and then third layer of decks of objection is. Okay, it sinks in and then it’s this is going to replace me. I actually have talked to some really big producers who’ve come to me and said, I will never ever be involved in this. I don’t want to talk to you. I don’t want to work with you. I will never be involved in this because I’m not going to support this because this is going to take away my job. I’m like, no, it’s going to 10X your business. It’s not going to take away your job. Okay. So they can’t get past that part of it. If you want to go and give me in feedback if it just didn’t work and I don’t know that’s fine. It’s not perfect. We get bug reports all the time. And most of the bugs that we get like something funny. It does in the user interface or something like somebody did some strange combination or they’re on, some new mobile device or whatever that we’ve never tried before and we get bug reports. So I love the bug report. Please keep having them back in it. And the other thing that’s really interesting about it is, if it does something that you don’t like, or you think it’s spooky or whatever, if you have a bad experience with it, you could just tell it, you can say it. I didn’t like this experience because X, Y, Z and it captures that and it figures out, okay, it figures out that they’re unhappy and automatically all of our senior engineers and executives are alerted and you’re going to get a phone call from us. And so we can dig in and understand what’s going on and improve the system. So we want you to tell it what you don’t like about it. So that she can improve.
[David] I think again, Nancy Bayat has funded 2 billion in originations, a top producer. Jennifer’s right up there and done a lot of volume as well. Both were very negative and said, I won’t do this. Then the fear came, just like you said, but then there was a turning point. Both of them said in their interviews, there became awareness. We as a human are going to need to communicate with a human to validate this. This is going to become the greatest enabler to have anything I’ve ever touched before in allowing me to do way more volume. I think it was Jennifer that said, this is like hiring an LPA loan processing assistant on virtually every single file. I open up a new case every time I start a new file. And so people are waking up, at least these two have, and we are literally finding thousands are starting to sign up for this product. Let’s talk about the growth a little bit. And then we talk about Jennifer and Nancy all day long, great stories. But this is being experienced at an extraordinary rate of adoption. You had some extraordinary growth in numbers. What are some of the recent numbers you’re seeing as far as new users? The adoption rate’s incredible. What are the latest numbers?
[Pavan] Okay. So June is shaping up to be an incredible month. We’re looking at a 50% increase in new users in June over May. May was a mild month of a 10% increase. But June is just exploding. So it’s about going viral. It’s about more and more people talking about it. We have a total users on the system with accounts is over a hundred thousand users. And active user, like really aggressive active users, we’re adding about 1,200 new users a month that are really, actively, strongly in it. Okay. Yeah, you’re right? And about 10,000 a month, go in and play with it, but don’t really, become active. It’s extraordinary And so May was 1200 and June, we’re on track to hit 1800 active users like aggressive active users. So that is huge. That is amazing. And our conversations are up 15%month over month. That was for April to May. But I think May to June is going to be very big considering the number of users being created. It’s so big. Yeah, so as the word gets out, as more people talk about it, the growth just keeps going bigger and bigger.
[David] Pavan, those are amazing numbers. When you hear that kind of growth, I really think that’s just the tip of the iceberg. I think you have a lot more growth ahead of you, but you’re doing some things that are really extraordinary listeners. You should go to askangel.ai and get signed up and start using it for free. That’s number one. So you get to start the experience. Others have done it. Don’t get left behind, but Pavan, you have an exciting announcement that you’re going to talk about now about what you’re releasing next. It’s going to be released a week from today when we’re recording this, we’re recording this on the 17th of June. You’re releasing next Monday a new service. Let’s talk about that.
[Pavan] Yeah, so exactly on June 24th, we call it Financial Independence Day and it is free credit repair for everybody and that solidifies.
[David] You say it’s free, you can use the system that you’ve invested millions of dollars in for free and now on top of that You’re going to be giving away free credit repair
[Pavan] Yes, free credit repair. Now there’s with a caveat that, the hard expenses like softball mailing, if we have to if some states require you to mail letters to the merchant and so forth. But, other than the hard expenses like that, everything else is free. Normally it costs you $200 a trade line. If you hire a third party credit repair company, you’re spending $200. You have to pay in advance before they even do anything. So you don’t even know whether you’ll pay 200 bucks. To get a DROG removed and you don’t even know if it’s going to come off. So here, you’re paying probably in total of just purely not to us, this is purely outside third party fees of maybe at most a hundred dollars, softballs, maybe about 50, 60 bucks. And then another 10, 20 of mailing.
[David] But it’d be a fraction of the cost, but it’s free again. AI driven technology that you’re doing. This comes to the other question, Pavan, you’re giving us away Angel AI, as it is a way free, you’re now giving away the credit repair service for free. There’s hard costs. I understand that, but it’s a fraction of what it would cost someone else to go out and hire a service. Why Pavan? why are you doing this?
[Pavan] That’s the other big objection that we get. people don’t believe it, why is it free?
[David] Yeah, exactly. Disbelief. Yeah.
[Pavan] Why is all this for free? First of all, let’s talk about credit repair. I can help millions of people and particularly minorities, get through the meat grinder when it comes to dealing with vendors and vendor agreements and so forth and they get stuck in one spot then financially, and they can have a time out of it because if you don’t have access to low cost credit. You can’t ever rise up economically. So I think these systems, they weren’t designed to keep people in boxes, the end result is people get stuck in boxes and if I can fix that with technology and help a lot of people, I think, that checks. That’s an important mission that we all should have in our lives, which is to help as many people as possible. Second is, yes, we’re going to make money doing I’m not going to cover that up. We’re going to make money doing this in the long run. Not in the short run, it’s an investment. In the long run, we’re going to make money. Because it becomes so obvious, anyone in the mortgage business, and the rest of the business, can see that this just becomes a big, massive lead funnel. And people will be coming in and we’ll get we can provide a real value to people. The AI doesn’t matter. Like you could do one credit repair request a day or 1 million credit repair requests a day. It doesn’t matter. It’ll address all of them. All right. So after the investment was done building the AI, the incremental cost is close to zero other than the data center cost. So I can help a lot of people with nominal costs. I think I can deliver real value first and foremost. And then on top of that, then people say, okay that could, that makes sense that you’re giving it to consumers for free so that you’d have a lead funnel, but then why are you giving it to real estate agents for free? Why are you giving it to loan officers for free? Why am I giving it to? say for example, Jennifer Martinez, who’s a loan officer for a major competing lender that of my mortgage company, right? I don’t see a single one of those loans ever. And I never will see any one of those loans. Why am I giving it to her for free? Because ultimately what I’m building is a national marketplace. I’m building a national marketplace of loan originators, realtors, consumers, CPAs, small business owners. Like all of these people, like insurance companies, so forth, insurance agents, professionals and business owners, I’m putting them all in one AI financial platform, okay? Then the platform will then be able to connect people together and bring people together and facilitate easy friendly transactions. Okay. And so it really becomes a social media platform at the end of the day. And so when consumers are in there and the AI will be able to predict, Hey, you need an insurance, you need to renew your insurance or you need an insurance policy, or you get a better rate on your credit card or whatever it is. And it will predict, it will go through this network. It’ll find better options and in real time present those options to the consumers. And that option could be, Hey here’s a loan officer for you in Toledo, Ohio, and here’s a realtor for you. All right. And these are they’re highly rated realtors and loan officers because number one, they have a track record with angel AI of closing for X number of transactions, all the customers that have used them are happy. They understand how to use technology. They’re the best fit for you.
[David] And if there’s any doubt in anyone’s mind that you can really accomplish this, it’s what you’re already accomplishing in leveling the playing field when it comes to fair lending. You’re already doing that.
[Pavan] Massively and I put some posts out there and I actually have it I have a page where I’ll put the link in the description there, there’s a page that actually shows the stats, actually what we delivered and, for some minority groups, we’ve cut it as much as half. In other words you can’t exactly say you doubled approvals, but you’ve cut the declines in half which is like you doubled the approvals. So, what that means is like for every two black borrowers that walked into a lender or a bank to get a mortgage, okay, that were declined. Okay, one should have been approved. You just think about that. And when the rate of a decline, that many people in a community get affected. Right? and don’t get credit when they’re supposed to then it spreads through the community gets depressed and now the whole community starts believing they’re just not gonna get into mainstream financial system. Now what’s even worse is veterans particularly disabled veterans I’ve been even higher, like it’s four times, like if four people got declined and three of them should have been approved. And so you’d think the people who sacrificed so much for our country should be the first ones getting approved, but they’re the last ones getting approved. And discrimination has manifests itself in all kinds of ways. Like here at today in Vegas at the World Series of Poker, right? There are people, their profession is playing poker. And they’re very good at it. They make a lot of money. They declare the money on their taxes. They file their taxes. And they are professional poker players, right? Because poker is a skill, right? They’re like, professional poker players are like athletes. It is a skill. And they’re very good at what they do and they make a lot of money. But, most banks, almost no bank wants to lend to them, even though it’s completely within the guidelines, that is a form of discrimination. So they doubled down on their sort of lifestyle they start believing that maybe I’m not good enough. Maybe, I’m just a poker player. You start creating depression, this psychology, right? Because, Oh the big banks don’t want to deal with me. So there must be something wrong with me. No, there’s nothing wrong with you. Nothing wrong with you. Now I’m expecting a massive explosion outside of this organic growth. Second half of June, because on June 24th, when we launched the credit repair. We’re marketing it on Copa America, which is a soccer tournament. Okay. And it’s going to be in front of all day long, it’s going to be in front of from 7-10 million people in English on Univision and in Fox, so in Spanish and English and remember Angel AI speaks like a hundred different languages. Cause you can start speaking to it, any language and it automatically switches. So he could speak to us in Spanish, French, Chinese, Hindi, whatever you want to speak with it and it talks back to you in that language. So that’s the other way we deliver fair lending is if we can speak to you in your language, especially when it comes to credit repair, the biggest reason minorities particularly have credit repair problems, because they don’t know how to negotiate with the merchants. The merchants will flag something or do something and they just give up. So there’s definitely a language barrier and a cultural barrier and if we make it simple with an AI tool, AI personal assistant. Those problems disappear and then we can literally lift millions of people’s lives up, right? And get them into mainstream, get them the mainstream finance and that then changes the whole nature of a society. Heck, I made enough money and I’ve already put the money into Angel AI. I already built it. And even if I don’t make a dollar more and I’m able to accomplish this and help so many people. I think that’s alone is the reward enough. I’m excited.
[David] And that’s worth it alone. Yeah. The reward of it. That’s such a good point. I love the vision that you have Pavan. as we wrap this up, I want to talk about, you are literally going around the world. You flew from your home in Puerto Rico to Cannes Film Festival. You’re one of the judges there. Then you went from there to India. Then you flew back, you were in New York, and then you were in Des Moines and now you’re in LA. You are just all over the place. First of all, I’m astounded that you’re going to do this level of travel and still function. That’s amazing in itself. What is driving you Pavan? What is the overarching, it’s got to be almost something supernatural that causes you to go so hard so long so consistently.
[Pavan] Number one is it is so much fun. This is a lot of fun. and I love showing it to people. I love showing the product to people and they immediately get it, especially when they get their hands on it, they use it and they get so excited by it and just seeing that excitement in people’s eyes. And it usually takes a minute to really understand the impact this will have on society and as that clicks in, they get so excited. That’s why if you watch my podcast with Bruce Buffer, he literally, and those of you who don’t know Bruce Buffer he’s the world famous announcer, loved by 5 million for the UFC. And he was the announcer for Formula One. And so he was actually the announcer for the World Series of Poker as well. And I went on his podcast and he, in real time, went on the website and started using it. And he’s never used AI before. he’s not that kind of guy, he’s not a technology guy. And as he did it, it like, he lit up, and he normally charges a lot of money for this, he doesn’t give endorsement and he gave an endorsement on the spot for it as he used it and he understood it, right? And it all clicked right before the podcast, we’d spoken a little bit. I’d gotten his interest enough where he’d say, okay, you’re interesting enough guests. Let’s get you on and then, and as he actually used it then the lights went off. It’s just so much fun in meeting all these people. And there’s a lot of celebrities that I’ve come across. They talking about it internally with each other. And they start telling, Hey, you got to meet, you got to check out this Angel AI. Yeah. You got to see what is doing. And so I get inbound calls now from other celebrities and so forth, and that they want to know more about what we’re doing and then they get it, they look at it and then they literally are helping me promote the product, right? Normally celebrities, A-listers charge millions of dollars for an endorsement deal. But they’re just like, yeah, we’ll talk about it. This is so cool. We want to be involved. Because it’s a way of giving back, right? Because the product is so entirely free, right? It is completely free and it’s helping so many people and so what happens is when you start doing something good, other people want to jump on the good as well.
[David] They want to hook their brand up to it. Exactly beause it’s going to help their brand or as a result of it, it cracks me up. Cause I got a call. As I think I disclosed this to you. We’ll leave the name out. One of the competitors out there who is very envious of what you’ve built. They’ve been trying and they haven’t been trying for as long as you have, but they’ve been trying and I’m trying to get something out because AI is just like all over. And then they’re going, look he must be spending a fortune to get people to back this thing, because look at how many people, many major names, major brands, major celebrities are getting in behind this. And I said, no, that’s not actually correct. They’re getting on for the very reason you just said, they get the vision that you’re really here to help people get through difficult things and own a home. And it’s real. And if people doubt that I encourage them to pick up the phone and get to know you, Pavan, meet you. I’ve had the privilege of staying in your home, meeting your wife and your family, your kids, they’re all brilliant. It’s just such a great culture. And then having met your dad so many years ago and work with him, I just applaud what you’ve done. Unfortunately, your dad passed away several years ago, but wherever he’s at now, he has got to be smiling down on the mandate that he gave you some time ago with what you’re doing. I just want to say how honored I am to get a chance to promote you and put you out and I’m just unabashedly do that. There’s no reason for me to do this other than just I just believe in your vision. It’s what hooked me in the industry over 50 years ago was helping a black couple buy a home after they had been rejected. And when I did, and the comments that came back to me, as a result that it was hooked me and has kept me in this industry. It’s when we can do that kind of good others, there’s just nothing more rewarding for it.
[Pavan] Yes. I agree 100%. And then here’s the other thing. You made a good point, is when we’re with people and we’re talking about the product and we just have a good time. We’re not trying to shove the product down anyone’s throat, this is the first podcast I’ve done where I haven’t actually worn an Angel AI. shirt because, and the dirty secret here is that I’ve been traveling so much, all my Angel AI shirts are dirty, this is the last shirt I got left, so that’s why I’m not in uniform today. So what happens is that we just have a good time and they look at the product and it’s automatic and then they want to get behind it. With Bruce we put up the money for the deal, was he’ll wear the patch and he’ll promote the product and we sponsor him $50,000 tournament. And it actually ended up making us money because he won everything back. And so, it didn’t cost anything at all at the end of the day. The point is if you’re just good to people and if you’re having a good time and you’re enjoying yourself, and then you’re actually building something that’s interesting and the rest will fall in place automatically.
[David] Yeah, it’s so true. I think your dad said, do good by doing right or doing, something to that effect. It was a phrase that he used, but it was just so much mentoring. I just want to applaud you Pavan for what you’re doing. There’s an increasing number of us who are seeing what you’re building, capturing the vision, and we’re all excited for you and encouraging the industry. In fact, it’s more serious than that industry. If you do not see what he’s doing, recognize it. It’s very distinctly possible that you’ll find yourself on the outside looking in because it’s overtaking the industry. And I recommended the book numerous times to my listeners, The Coming Wave by Mustafa Suleiman, it’s a great book and I encourage that you are doing that. And I want to say thank you for taking some time to be here with me. Thank you so much Pavan
[Pavan] Yeah, and I encourage all the listeners to follow me on Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn or something whatever suits you because that’s where you get the latest posts and get to see who most recent person that’s getting involved and having some fun with the product. So definitely check those out. David will put those links in.
[David] We’ll absolutely put those in there. Yeah. Yeah. That’s outstanding. Very good. Thank you Pavan for being here. Enjoy your time in Las Vegas. I know, hopefully we’ve got a couple of other trips where we’re getting you on while you’re away at this time. We’ll look forward to having you back again soon. Appreciate it so much.
[Pavan] Thank you David.
Important Links
- Sunwest Mortgage website
- Angel AI website
- Interview with Nancy Bayat
- Interview with Jennifer Martinez
- LinkedIn – Pavan Agarwal
- Facebook – Pavan Agarwal
- Instagrtam – Pavan Agarwal
Pavan Agarwal is a renowned leader in the mortgage lending industry and a pioneer in bringing artificial intelligence to the financial markets. Agarwal serves as the President and CEO of Sun West Mortgage Company and Celligence International, LLC.