[David] So let’s get over to Allen Pollock. Allen, good to have you. Alice Alvey is not here with us today. She did a great job. Again, thank you, Alice, as I said, at the top of the program, for hosting last week. We get so much positive feedback when you do, and I appreciate it very much. Like Corbett said, who’s that one baseball player that took one day off and found out he was out a job? Alice does such a good job, and I’m so grateful for her contribution. But Allen Pollack, good to have you here. Lot more and more stuff going on with AI. It continues to be the focus. What do you have for your segment today, my friend?
[Allen] Is Alice is either heads down writing AI governance compliant regulation and all types of other documents because she just misses it so much, or she’s getting a tattoo of her favorite company. And the reason I say that is there is a company, it’s an AI startup. This gentleman I guess he’s the CEO, he promised job interviews for logo tattoos, and then he apologized. So the company’s called Lemonlime, and he told people at this broad company event, “Get our logo tattooed on you, and we’ll give you an instant job interview.” Seven people did it. They got the job interview, but then the founder posted a public LinkedIn apology stating that he messed up and offered to pay for the seven people’s tattoo removal or anyone else that decided to get the tattoo. So I wonder if Alice comes back next week with a Lemonlime tattoo.
[David] Yeah. I think she’s out fishing with her husband, Andy, and I think they’re having a good time. Way to go, Alice.
[Allen] Sound, sounds more like it. All right, let’s get into some mortgage industry tech news, and then David will talk about an article that you posted on LinkedIn. Yeah. So LoanLogics my old company, they launched a new product called Carbon, C-A-R-B-N. They say certify once, accepted everywhere. What they’re saying is it’s an asset registry and buying network, and it’s their new cloud native platform, which is built to transform how mortgage loans move through the ecosystem. Their core concept, they stated, is a loan file is certified once and then accepted everywhere, limiting the redundant rechecks every time a loan changes hands between originator, aggregator, correspondent, and investor. And they’ve got a bunch of certification components and QC components in there. So go check it out. It’s called Carbon, C-A-R-B-N. Definitely- something new. They touch a lot of documents I guess in a way it makes sense that they may be able to become a facilitator of a certified document. It doesn’t talk in the quick little news article piece I have here about AI too much, but I know that they’re using AI in a bunch of different things here. Before I move on, David, any feedback on what LoanLogic just did?
[David] It’s fun to see companies like LoanLogic, which has been around for a long time, go through numerous changes, both in the terms of leadership and vision and what they need to do, but there’s some companies that just continue to find ways to innovate in this space. I’m wondering about this latest new endeavor that they’re doing or what they’re doing with it. It’ll be interesting to see If this gets traction and, … any thoughts you have on it, or are you still conflicted because you used to work there? I know, I’m sure you wish them the best, as I would too. They’re great. They were an old client of mine as a result of work. That’s where I met you, Alan. That’s how we got on, you on this podcast. Yeah. They did a lot- … really under Brian Fitzpatrick’s leadership. He did a great job. But they’ve gone through- … the industry has gone through so many changes. It’s almost like a whole topic just right there, Alan, on the different changes of machinations about-
[Allen] Oh, for sure. That’s a deep rabbit hole that you just mentioned because in general, not specific to LoanLogics, in general you’ve got companies that have built a lot of platforms that are on old code bases. And when I say old, I don’t mean it doesn’t work. I mean it’s a monolithic process. It’s a code base that was built as one huge unit of code, and then when these companies go and throw AI onto it or they reinvent themselves, did they create a new platform or did they add services to an older platform? Sometimes those older platforms, David, are great because it’s a consistent, verifiable process that can’t change. You’re guaranteed to get the same input and output compared to other systems that have a lot of variableness to them. But that’s, again, that’s a deep rabbit hole that you’re going down. As far as my thought on what they’re doing here with zero real, opinion swaying left or right on this, the reality is they work with a lot of lenders and they touch a lot of people. There was a conversation, by the way, that I had last week with someone and they said everybody can do OCR and all these other things, including other things in the industry, right? Everyone can replace a CRM if they want. The problem is the maturity of the platform to do it. Yeah, you can throw some documents into AWS and leverage technology or the Google Cloud or anywhere, but you don’t have the repeatable, consistent, compliant process to keep getting that data off and know that you’re always getting the same good thing. And so based on that, companies still have a true hard value that’s gonna be hard to take away. So if you think about all the compliance and the checks and the validation and what the QC does, that LoanLogic does for people, and the other services they have, they truly have something that- Can be used and delivered, but you still have to fight with the uphill battle depending on your customer with certain LOS systems, with certain doc systems, depending on, who’s partnered with who. You can’t just step into a market and say, “Use our docs.” They’re gonna say we use this system here, and we use that system there, but that system’s only connected to this system.” And then we got this mess in the mortgage industry that we’re all stuck inside of. So that’s my my quick feedback to your deep whole answer, David.
[David] Yeah. It’s encouraging to see LoanLaunch. I’m glad for many that are still there, that it is prospering. Absolutely. I’m glad- Yeah, I wish them the best of luck, and I can’t wait to see it … fellow competitors are willing just to just continue to stay in and fight the good fight.
[Allen] Yeah. All right, let’s get to some other fun news. Just as a reminder, this is something that I think Alice probably would’ve shortly covered. But UAD 3.6 goes live November 2nd folks, and that’s the appraisal data. And what you need to know is that five appraisal forms have collapsed into one dynamic report. Roughly 750 new data points have been added, and LOS integrations may quietly break. it has nothing to do with good LOS, bad LOS. It’s a lot of data and a lot of testing that’s needed, folks, so everyone’s at risk. Keep that in mind. 750 new data points. And underwriting is the heavier training lift that this is geared towards. Lenders, most of them haven’t even started. Fannie Mae’s own credit risk manager participated in Reggora’s working session on this. There’s a recording online that you can look for. The real deadline, by the way, is October 1st, not really November 2nd. Keep an eye out for that. David, check this out. This is a company, Homelight, and they’ve just launched an AI agent for automated real estate closings. So think about this. The closing aspect of the mortgage loan, while you have some control in the mortgage side of it, you don’t control the whole experience. But it doesn’t mean that the customer, the borrower, doesn’t think you’re connected to it, and the experience they have at closing, that’s the last touch. It doesn’t mean that if closing doesn’t go great or if you can make closing better, they won’t think that you weren’t part of that. So check this out. Homelight, they just introduced an AI agent that’s designed at automating the real estate transaction closing because, They’re saying they removed, so because they say they removed, David, the heaviest manual components, the coordination-intensive parts of the whole transaction, and they’re trying to automate even more. But right now they’re looking at the scheduling, the document routing, and the stakeholder coordination, all that’s part of that back-and-forth process. So if you’ve not heard of HomeLight or if you have, check that out. And then David, I wanna head over to… I’ve got some other things in here. I’m gonna save these for next week ’cause they’re just smaller things. The article that you posted let me just mention that. So you posted something that said most leaders are asking the wrong AI question, and they’re asking which AI model should we choose. And you referenced what Amazon is doing, and that’s not Amazon buying books and your supplements and everything else. This is Amazon AWS. AWS, yeah. And Amazon invested heavily in Anthropic for many years. Yes. Now it’s partnering with OpenAI. And what you noted in your post, David, is you said Amazon didn’t change sides. It’s building infrastructure that works with any AI model. And by the way, they better, right? Because Amazon’s always been in the middle on everything. They’ve played Switzerland. But the real strategy is don’t bet on one AI winner, as your article stated. Build an organization flexible enough to adapt as AI evolves And you left a question for the leaders, and you said, “Is your AI strategy built around today’s technology or around your organization’s ability to adapt to tomorrow?” And we’ve been saying things like that in our industry all along. Amazon already allows customers to choose between dozens of AI models. So with that being said, there are three takeaways from your article, and then I wanna, I’m gonna pause and then at the end I’ll give you my quick opinion. The three takeaways that you left in your article for everybody… if you haven’t read it, folks, just go on LinkedIn and click on David Lincoln’s profile, or you can go to his website and you can find it there. But the three things that you left, David, were built for flexibility, avoid strategies that depend on a single tech provider, absolutely. Yeah. Financial institutions , by the way, when they do their due diligence, if you’re a non-bank lender, financial institutions almost always need to have a risk mitigation case for each of the important vendors that touch their transactions. Focus on customer outcomes was the second thing you said, and that’s huge. And then the final thing was thinking ecosystems. So I’ll pause there, David. If you want to add anything to the article before I throw my opinion in at the end.
[David] And for a strategy on how to address each one of these, get ahold of Allen Pollack. That’s the thing I left out of the article. Yeah, he’s a great guy. Yeah, he’s a great guy. He’s a great guy, and he knows what the heck he’s doing. What we want to do is pose the question because what we’re learning from AI, it’s not having all the knowledge and stating facts, it’s how you create the question, how you ans- ask the question that is so important and I really depend on- … true experts like you to do the excellent job about what’s going on. So anyway there’s good discussion, Alan. I’ll let you go ahead and finish it out unless, Mr. Kiddle, you have any- anything. I know you have to cut and run here pretty s- quickly.
[Kittle] No, all good here, David. That was a good report on Alan, too. I think it- w- when Alan’s talking about how we have to have flexible, this is a fact. It’s not taking a shot at anything that’s been around, but you look at the inflexibility of the LOS system Encompass over the years, right? It was their way or the highway. And they didn’t integrate well with people. They didn’t play in the sandbox with people. They were the elephant in the room. They controlled everything. They didn’t care. And I think AI opens up while I’m not a big fan of it, it’s here. But the better integration and better flexibility within our business, and better innovation coming. It just is.
[David] It is coming. All right, Allen. Marc, you wanna add any commentary to that before we-
[Marc] What David just said, Mr. Kittle just said about Encompass is so true, and they’re gonna die on the vine what’s happening around them over time. It’ll take time ’cause so people, so many entrenched with them, and even if they try to get up to speed, there’s so many people who’ve done some more innovative things that they haven’t had for a long time, that they’re playing- Well- catch up in some of that. So it’s interesting. And the algorithm-
[Kittle] Hey, David. Yeah. So really before I drop here, I, how about if I, can, I’m gonna take part of Marc’s rant here so I had a good last weekend before at my club in golf, so I had some cash, nice cash to take to the bank to deposit, okay? ‘Cause they paid out in cash. And so I go into PNC. I have a deposit ticket filled out and signed, and I hand the cash over. They won’t accept it until I show either my debit card or my ID. Now, this is a straight deposit for cash, and I looked at it and they said this is a federal requirement. So I quickly went to DuckDuckGo, not Google, and pulled it up. It’s not a federal requirement. The federal government gives banks the option to do that. Option. And PNC is pushing it back on the Fed and making it, and I said, I will. Maybe all banks do it, but I’m ready to close and go after 30-something years where I have to show that it’s me to give them my money to go in my account, and the teller knows me. Yeah. Okay? That’s what I know. Complete ridiculous requirement All in the name of stopping fraud. And I said, “Please tell me where the fraud is.” Where the fraud is. It’s real cash, it’s my money going in there. All right. Good job. Good appointing. Gittel, thanks for being here. I love you so much.
[David] Look forward to seeing you down the road. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Dave. You bet. All right, Allen, back to you.
[Allen] I agree with everyone in their feedback. The only piece, David, that I’ll leave us with in the end is, the IMBs that win they will not have chosen the best model. They have built the most flexible option. Yes. And for the- Good point. Yeah. Yes. And for the lenders, David that, they’re not sure, they’re inundated at conferences and, you know- the companies that they s- Yeah … the companies that they work with are selling solutions. They need to consider how can they be flexible and how can they pick the right technology partners for the right solution. There’s a lot of overlap and it takes time to redo and manage and maintain your vendor due diligence. Which by the way, folks, your vendor due diligence is not just about, they have the right security mechanisms in place it has to do with what are you using that technology for? What do they have that’s new? Who are their partnerships? How have their integrations evolved? You need to look at all these different things. But all positive things, right? These are good problems to have because there are great technology solutions out there, but don’t pony up to only one solution for everything.
[David] Yeah. Yeah. Flexibility is so important. You really bring that out. Such, such a good point. Good good report Thank you.
Allen Pollack
, Chief Operating Officer, Tech Consultant
Allen Pollack, a Mortgage & Financial Services Technology Advisor, is a subject matter expert in the mortgage origination process along with software product management and software development.
In today’s financial services push to all things Digital, Allen has been helping lenders and financial services solution providers align their digital transformation and technology strategies by removing the human element of risk, and automating processes that drive efficiencies and margins into profits.
Over the course of his career, Allen has co-created and developed technology business models that have birthed highly successful, innovative solutions and companies.
Allen co-founded and served as CTO of New York Loan Exchange (NYLX), a loan product eligibility and pricing engine (PPE) that made an immediate impact on the industry, scaling the company quickly and forming partnerships with multiple mortgage and financial lending companies. In 2012, Allen was a co-founder of a merger between NYLX and Aklero Risk Analytics that created LoanLogics, A Mortgage Loan Quality and Performance Analytics company. Allen served as CTO where he continued to bring new and innovative product solutions to the market that made a significant impact to mortgage lenders that reduced risk, scaled business channels, and grew profits in a very competitive and highly regulated market.
Allen is also is mortgage and finance technology contributor on a weekly live industry podcast, Lykken on Lending, and is launching a new podcast soon to be released, TechStack Radio, dedicated to technology and innovation in Financial Services.