Lykken on Lending

In our Hot Topic this week, we have Rich Swerbinsky, President & Chief Operating Officer at The Mortgage Collaborative, on the program to discuss what they are seeing the mortgage industry doing………

A complete 180 in terms of the type of business climate, they are now close to two years of record production, massive amounts of refinancing activity, 30-year fixed rates, and the low to mid twos throughout all of that. And for lenders, it is really just about executing their pipeline and then managing some of the pandemic-related changes, like work from home and some of the changing borrower-related demands that went along with that. Now, as they get into the new year, they have seen 30-year fixed rates, interest rates have jumped up to their highest levels in over two years, the refinance volume has dropped, and lenders are hyper-focused on the future of their business. Automation, technology, partners M&A; either growth or, in some cases, looking to maybe merge or fold in with another organization, just the automation of tasks in general. It is mind-boggling how human the mortgage industry and the mortgage manufacturing process still are. Really? And the pandemics had a lot to do with it!

Want to read more about the episode? Click here!

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The Current State Of The Mortgage Industry With Rich Swerbinsky

I’m glad that you are able to join us. It is February 7th, 2022. We’ve got the Olympics going on. I’m enjoying that. I feel so badly for the American skier who broke her leg. It’s fun to be watching the Olympics. There is so much going on in the world and with interest rates. I can’t wait to get into that with Les, Matt, and Jack with all the stuff happening with mortgage rates.

We are going to dedicate one of the Hot Topic segments we got coming up here to interest rates. Does everyone need to revise their predictions? We are going to be looking at that. Again, this show is created by mortgage professionals. It is for mortgage professionals, and we are grateful to have you as our reader. Our commitment is to bring you timely information that you can read anytime and anywhere.

I’m glad to have you with us, and it is sunny here, and we are warming up in Central Texas. It has been down in the 20s at night. That’s cold but something that is hot in the Hot Topic segment. We’ve got Rich Swerbinsky, the President and Chief Operating Officer at TMC, The Mortgage Collaborative. We are talking about some of the things going on there. We’ve got the Winter Conference coming up in Fontainebleau, Florida but be sure to stay tuned for the Hot Topic segment with Rich and hear all that’s going on within TMC.

I want to say thank you to our partners, IndustrySyndicate.com. We are also partnered with DW Consulting. How did you go to our sponsorship page? We have Debbie on a sponsorship program but she’s partnering with us on the consulting side as well. I’m so impressed with what she does. Also, I want to say thank you to the Mortgage Bankers Association of America, a great industry leader. How they lead our industry, and what they are doing with the Mortgage Action Alliance application. Do check out the MBA’s website. The Secondary Marketing Conference was another one of the conferences coming up in New York.

Also, Finastra’s Fusion Mortgagebot solution. Check out their decision software product that does great things. Check that out. Chris Zingo is going to be coming on. He is the President of Americas for Finastra. We are going to have him coming up here for a guest appearance on the show. Again, we have Karen Jenkins talking about how they are designing their products moving forward. It has to do with programming. A lot of great insights on the technology side and what’s going on there.

Also, we have sponsors. Lenders One and the Mortgage Collaborative. Again, The Mortgage Collaborative is featured on the show. Also, Total Expert is one of our newest sponsors. I’m so excited to be working with them and all that they have to offer. We talked to you more about them, and we got their agreement in. They are official.

Also, Knowledge Coop does a great job of sharing knowledge within your organization through a learning management system, LMS. Check out KnowledgeCoop.com as well as Mobility MMI, their Mortgage Market Intelligence along with Modex’s technology. These two platforms do a great job and help you recruit. I was talking to Bobby nicely over at ALCOVA Mortgage. We will give Bobby a shout-out along with Billy and Rob, his partners in the business at ALCOVA.

One of the things we talked about is how you can use this tool very effectively. If you are competing against another loan officer. Do you want to get some intelligence on them? That’s another way of using Mobility MMI as well as Modex to find out who your competition is and how much experience they have versus what you have. You can point out unique differences. I encourage you to check out these two products, and some have one or the other. You should have both of them because they are a great complement to each other.

Also, a big thank you to Snapdocs for what they do. They have tools that help you support and implement the eMortgage technology effectively, and they do that through the Snapdocs eMortgage Quick Start Program. Check them out, as well as SuccessKit Julian Lumpkin does a great job of helping you tell your story. Check out SuccessKit.io. Also, go to our website. Also, Lender Toolkit. It’s another one of our new sponsors. It does a great job. They are going to be doing a mini-user group at the summer conference. We will be getting together on their website to see how we can connect there. I will be there with the microphone and talking to them.

Also, PennyMac. They are our new sponsors. I’m thrilled to have them here with us. You have to check out the interview that we did with Kim Nichols on November 1st. We look at what Kimberly is talking about, what they are doing at PennyMac to enter into the broker space, into the third party space. You get to see the programs. They are innovative and doing some great things. Check out PennyMac. Again, DW Consulting is our newest sponsor, but it does a great job helping you with your LinkedIn profile, so it stands out from the competition.

Also, finally, I want to say a special thank you to Rob, Les, Alice, Allen, Matt, and Jack for their contributions each and every week. I’m excited to have to join me on the show, Rich Swerbinsky. He is President and Chief Operating Officer for The Mortgage Collaborative. Rich, it is so good to have you back on with me. I appreciate it.

Dave, it’s great to be here. Thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to the discussion.

I also want to start by saying congratulations on the success of The Mortgage Collaborative under your leadership. Since you became President and COO of the organization, we are looking at some tremendous growth. Fifty-two new members in 2021. What do you attribute this to?

It’s word of mouth. We have no salespeople. We have nobody whose job it is to grow members. I guess I’m the salesperson. I’m the gatekeeper, and we are so quality over quantity as well. We are growing very intentionally. Fifty-two new members last year with nobody trying to do it and being selective about who you are adding and hopefully saying that we are providing a lot of value and people are telling their friendly competitors about it. We love that because members that joined that way are higher caliber members for us as well.

You are doing a great job. We are thrilled to be members and truly value what comes out of this organization as far as creating great content and support for the lender members as well as vendors, so it’s good. Let’s talk about some of the trends. One of the things is that in your seat as the President and COO, you are seeing trends and themes that are top-of-mind issues for lenders as we get launched into 2022, sir.

We are seeing the mortgage industry do a complete 180 in terms of the type of business climate. We’ve had now close to two years of record production, massive amounts of refinance activity and 30-year fixed rates, and the load of mid-twos throughout all of that. For lenders, it was about executing their pipeline and then managing some of the pandemic-related changes like working from home and some of the changing borrower-related demands that went along with that.

Now, as we get into the New Year here, we’ve seen 30-year fixed rates. Interest rates, in general, jumped up to their highest levels in over two years. It has choked up. Refinance volume has dropped. The lenders are hyperfocused on the future of their business like automation, technology partners, M&A, and either growth or in some cases, looking to be maybe merged or folded in with another organization.

The automation of tasks in general, how humans, the mortgage industry, and the mortgage manufacturing process still is mind-boggling. The pandemic had a lot to do with it. It got so busy a few summers ago that lenders were forced to throw bodies at this thing, and it stayed busy, and then we get into ’21. It was busier than expected, and it was a defensive environment for lenders to fend off business, and now it’s changing to the very offensive.

Now, we are definitely on an offensive move. Let’s follow one of those themes that you mentioned. We are going to get into several of those. The first one is the work from home. What are you seeing as far as the trend? Is there a desire to get back into the office amongst the TMC members or has this become not only a trend but now is the way we work moving forward?

It’s all over the board. I will say the last two variants of the pandemic have changed people’s minds on this more but people view it a little bit differently now, and there are some that want to get everybody back in the office. I would say 10%, 15% or maybe 20% are totally fine with 100% remote. The other 60% or whatever percent is somewhere in the middle. They want still some human interaction and, “The office is open these days or a rotating schedule so you don’t have a million people in the office or you bring people in regionally at certain points during the week or the month.”

Everybody is all over the board with it. It’s changed, just the recruiting and retention dynamic of operational personnel, which has been a complete change for our industry. It can originate in a lot of different states. Recruiting LOs in different states has always been a thing but now, the way lenders recruit and retain operations folk, it could be anywhere.

Mortgage Industry: Recruiting Lending Officers in different states has always been a thing, but now, the way lenders recruit and retain operations folk, it could be anywhere.

We are seeing a real trend towards a lot of operational people, specifically underwriters and more senior people, which happens to be probably upwards on the age spectrum of the whole spectrum. Not that they are older than anything but they are saying, “I want to work from home. This is a requirement. I like this. This commute stuff, I’m done with it. This is working well for me.” Your thoughts on what I said, and are you seeing that in certain areas of the operational ranks more so than others?

Yeah, absolutely. Underwriters more than any other position because with underwriters, it was the one position that had some remoteness to it pre-pandemic but now, if you are an underwriter, the nature of the position works well with remote. However, more broadly, for some of the companies that maybe wanted to bring people back in either full-time or on a hybrid basis, there has been a lot of pushback from staff. Not all staff but a decent percentage have said, “I need or want to work remotely, and if you can’t do that for me at ABC Mortgage, there is no shortage of competitors that I could go work for.” The pandemic changed a lot with our industry.

We are seeing some trends as far as training. One of the things that I quote so regularly was Malcolm Gladwell when he spoke at the National MBA in San Diego. He says, “One of the casualties has been the transfer of knowledge that we’ve seen,” because when you are working in the same office, there’s the subliminal picking up of information, the training.

He talked about Bob Woodward. He got to sit next to him, the celebrated famous reporter. He got to sit and watch him as a junior right out of college and he says, “Watching his work ethic, I’m not sure I would’ve picked up on that in any other way.” What are some of the trends as it relates to training and addressing that?

It’s one area of the industry. The lenders, in general, have struggled with it since the pandemic. Training is better done in person. Can you do great remote training? Yes, you can, and there are some great remote trainers. There are certain things you train people on that are easier to do remotely than in person but all in all, to have humans training humans on parts of the mortgage manufacturing origination process, it’s more effective in person.

On top of that, you had lenders to satiate all the volume in their pipeline. They had to add a lot of people. It was chaos in 2020. You had some companies trying to bring people in. They were hiring people from all over the country and trying to bring them into wherever their home office was. You had others that were trying to do it remotely.

You had not enough trainers in the industry to fulfill all this, and it wasn’t even like you could pull off non-trained top-end processors, underwriters, and closers to do it because they were so busy. Now, it’s one part of the business that lenders have rethought over the course of the last year, and the way they train and their training departments are structured a lot differently now than they were pre-pandemic.

One of the other trends you talked about is mergers and acquisitions. We are certainly seeing a surge in that and they think there’s a natural one where people are aging out. They’ve had a good run. They’ve owned their business for a good number of years, and they are at that point where they are saying, “It’s time to go to pasture and let the next generation. What do we do with this?” Talk about some of the M&A trends that you are seeing and how they are being structured. Any themes that you are seeing there?

Yeah, you hit on a big one. There are a lot of older sole proprietors, independent mortgage bank owners or maybe co-ownerships. 3 or 4 people own the company, and they’ve had the two best years of their lives, and we got the democratic CFPB. It is ramping up the rhetoric. We all remember. It was a lot tough redoing business when Richard Cordray was over that organization. We are heading into a tough business climate.

It’s natural that you are going to see a lot of that type of M&A and other trends that you are seeing is there are a lot of big companies in our industry that went public, and that’s a new dynamic for the mortgage industry. There have been a lot of large public companies, and those companies are seeing their originations obviously in profits and net profit margin fall. If you are a public company, shareholders, and that all is happening, the natural reaction is to grow and scale.

You are starting to see some of those bigger companies are starting to get more active, and then there’s a lot of miscellaneous stuff like something that just happened with Redfin, the real estate company, and Bay Equity out of California, and talking about numbers and metrics. I know a lot of our members, and a lot of the industry is looking at that one. I forget what the numbers were on it.

It was $135 million and $8.5 billion a year. All the IMB owners are doing the math, and it’s not quite that simple like athletes. Fernando Tatis signs for eight years and $300 million, and Bryce Harper is like, “I want that plus 5%.” It’s not quite that simple in the mortgage industry but a lot of people are looking at it that way.

They are looking at that Redfin deal and going, “If I could get that money.” I was having a conversation with an executive, a guy that has been a client for many years. They are not interested in selling. He said, “I’ve got a lot of gas in this tank,” and then I mentioned to him the multiple that someone is paying and he goes, “Go ahead and make that introduction.” He would be willing to hit that bid if that’s a real number.

When you see these valuations, you are astute to bring up the Bay Equity acquisition by Redfin. It’s going to be interesting what comes out. $135 million, you were right. I’m looking at the press release on this. When you look at some other aspects, new entrants coming in, that’s partly because we’ve done so much of that in the past.

We are seeing a number of new companies come in, and they are well-capitalized. $5 million to $15 million capitalization coming into the industry that hasn’t been there before. They are taking a very interesting approach, and that is being tech-led. In other words, the foundation of their business model is more technology-driven. What are you seeing from TMCs perspectives?

It’s the same, and every time you have one of these cycles like we are in now, “It has been busy with high margin and a lot of refi for a couple of years.” The anticipation volume is going to drop off pretty significantly. In my experience, you always see a lot of new entrants come into the market at that time for a few different reasons.

One, a lot of times, it’s people that made gobs of money somewhere else. They are setting up shop and looking to start their own company or do something new. Also, anytime you have change or volatility in our industry, either at the very high-end or low-end, it opens up opportunity. The anticipation is that over the course of the next couple of years, a lot of the smaller lenders are going to be gobbled up into larger lenders.

To me, it opens opportunities because small lenders have a lot of advantages over the biggest lenders. One of our members told me on a call we had the other week that they were doing some searches on the NMLS or something. The number of IMBs that exist now versus a few years ago is down by 30% or 40%. That’s a number that will only continue to increase.

It’s a good time to start a new business now, especially if you are going to lead it with some impactful differentiating technology, which is clearly where things are going. The human LO will never go away completely but the number of automated applications that are fed through lead businesses that are paid a lower commission is only going to go off.

Talking about LO Compensation, what are you hearing from TMC members? We are seeing a margin compression. Certainly, there is a lot of focus, and you look at the single biggest item on anyone’s expense P&L is the amount of compensation paid out and specifically the LOs. What are you seeing as trends are anticipating from your perspective, Rich?

It will trickle down. I don’t think that LO Comp never got crazy during these last couple of years. We tracked that through TMC Benchmark, and the bridge LO Comp in our network went up from 93 basis points to 1 point. It probably spiked at 107 or 108 and settled back down around 100. That’s a mix of IMB. Decent banks and credit unions, big and small. It’s a pretty significant sample size and reflective of the industry. It will go down. Anytime you have one of these climates where refi is going to go away, niche products like construction and adjustable rate mortgages help depositories.

IMB’s market share depends on what stat you look at. It’s probably 60%, 62%, and 63% in America. It’s never even been close to that high, and the depository market share was that high and higher if you go back many years. It will leave it out. Things are cyclical, and LO that has been in an IMB that has valued that employer because of nimbility and maybe tech, and now you are looking at the depository. “You are going to give me a construction product and a good portfolio of arms products and some rehab stuff. It’s got a little wind at their back now.

They certainly do. You touched on something there that’s a real value prop for anyone that’s a part of TMC, and it’s called benchmarking. Talk about that. It’s such an amazing thing you guys are doing.

Like everything we do, which is one of many cool things about TMC, it’s driven by our members. Our board of directors is comprised of our lender members, so we are managed willingly by our lender members, which gives the members a strong sense of ownership in the organization. It creates this pay-it-forward culture but it was a few years ago now that we are doing our collaboration labs and our intensive networking sessions between organizations.

Mortgage Industry: One of many cool things about TMC is it’s driven by our members. Our lender members manage us willingly, which gives them a strong sense of ownership in the organization and creates this pay-it-forward culture.

Part of that exercise is everybody signs a mutual NDA. We collect a bunch of data. We compile it side by side, so companies can see how they compare very specifically against 8 to 15 companies. It’s very much like them, and we started doing those labs, and the lenders immediately were like, “I would love to see this monthly as opposed to every six months when we get our lab group together.”

That was how TMC Benchmark started. It’s a free part of membership, monthly data benchmarking tool. It’s from the 5th to the 19th of every month. Part of my to-do list will be to go in there and analyze the results and write up an executive summary that gets sent out along with it. On the 22nd and 23rd of each month, lenders are sitting on very functional dashboards that show how they compare in all the most critical areas against our whole network and their peer group within it. It’s pretty cool.

It’s an amazing value for me. As a business owner of a mortgage company, I have owned three mortgage companies in the past. I have been an owner-operator for three of them. The value of that data is so powerful, especially when it comes out monthly. It’s real-time. Whereas other entities that produce benchmarking data, pure analysis, it’s so far in the rearview mirror. It doesn’t feel relevant to what’s happening now, especially when you look at the dynamic markets.

Let’s look over to the tech area. You have a unique perspective on it because TMC is a partner with a lot of tech companies. Also, I don’t think TMC is making the investment in tech companies but there’s a sister company that does make investments in tech companies. I love to get your perspective on what’s got your interest and attention.

Several months ago, we created a fund for our members to buy in as limited partners that reviews and assesses if they choose to invest in emerging tech companies. I’ve got about twenty lender members of ours that are part of that as limited partners. We’ve invested in four. Three of them were Series A startups and mortgage tech companies, and the fourth was a more established company.

A big advantage of my job is being able to see what’s behind door number three. What’s coming down the pike? The type of tech that people are working on that won’t be mainstream for 1 year or 2. It is fascinating to see. The other side of it is on the regular TMC side, a lot of those companies reach out to us, and we assess that landscape to bring on the best and the brightest as preferred partners to our network.

What’s happened with technology in the mortgage industry because of Dodd-Frank and the Democrat’s CFPB and other perceptions, technology, in general, was delayed to the mortgage industry by about 3 to 5 years from other similar type industries. We started to see great advances 6 or 7 years ago. A lot of it stemmed from the Rocket Mortgage, push button, get mortgage Super Bowl commercial. That was a seminal moment for the mortgage industry and so much changed from that day forward.

What started to happen after that was that tech providers focused on the borrower-facing sides of tech. The point of sales and the mobile app. That stuff is great in the mortgage industry. It’s very refined. There are a lot of great opportunities and companies to partner up with there. Now, what we are seeing is the rest of the stuff going behind. Automation and document recognition are all these next-level tasks that stand to dehumanize the mortgage manufacturing process and start to make predictive analytics on servicing books. The ways to use AI in a bunch of different ways behind the scenes and operate more strategically.

Mortgage Industry: Automation and document recognition are all these next-level tasks that stand to dehumanize the mortgage manufacturing process and start to make predictive analytics on servicing books.

We could go onto that topic forever. There’s certainly a lot of M&A going on in that area. It’s interesting and another compelling reason for someone to become a member of TMC when they realize that that opens up the door for them to become a limited partner in up-and-coming tech companies, and that gives them a unique perspective into what’s developing and trending. That’s valuable. I want to talk a little bit about your upcoming conference in Miami at the Fontainebleau. Talk about what you got on the agenda there. Has the latest round of COVID discouraged that from happening or are you full steam ahead on that?

We are on pace. We had our biggest conference ever back in September at Terranea in California. We had 400 people. We are projecting 430 to 450 here in Miami. To be honest, it had some impact. We probably would have been 450 in Terranea and probably 500 in Miami but what we saw this past September is that we are a very human organization. We do so much virtually, 20 to 30 different virtual sessions a month, our data benchmarking tool, and a bunch of other stuff but it is about relationships and in-person connections.

All the great stuff that happens when we get our members together every six months in person. I am looking forward to Miami. We released the agenda, which is up at MortgageCollaborative.com for everybody to see again. Everything we do is driven by the members. We do a very comprehensive survey of our members every six months. We are at 800 key decision makers than our 261 lender members. We call it the pulse of the mortgage industry, and the agenda for our conferences is formulated very largely on the results of that survey.

I’m sure you would be talking about government policy and the influence that it has on the industry. You mentioned that the headwinds are increasing as a result of the Democratic CFPB. That’s going to be something of a focus at the conference. Any more you want to say about that?

It’s interesting what’s going on is we saw the White House change. With it, all the key housing leaders. Housing has been very much at the forefront. I remember talking on shows like this and others about how every presidential debate, housing never gets brought up. Housing is so central to the fabric of America and the economy of America but it seems like it has never made the top ten issues that Americans are concerned about.

You’ve seen this administration come in and aggressively talk about housing and start to make some very bold moves on both sides of the ledger. We saw Mark Calabria, who was working to get Fannie and Freddie out of the government’s thumb ousted income. Sandra Thompson, who we were lucky to have spoken with at our conference in September. She’s coming back again to Miami. When you hear her speak, you hear somebody at the head of FHA that gets the mortgage industry to understand it’s important that housing and that housing is important to America and that hearing the voice of mortgage lenders is critical.

They are going to be doing a lot of things through Fannie and Freddie to help promote home ownership for minorities and people of median to lower income and areas that have been left behind in housing. At the same time, though, you’ve got a new democratic leader of the CFPB that has been very aggressive in his rhetoric and making lenders think about a whole host of compliance-related items that they haven’t had to think too much about for the last 4 or 5 years.

It’s a double-edged sword but the underpinnings of it all is a lack of inventory in America. My one fear and hope is that the Federal government doesn’t do things to continue to increase demand by doing what they need to do, opening home ownership to making it easier for different types of people to become homeowners without thinking about that supply side because it’s a huge issue in the industry.

That is good that you guys are going to be covering that at the conference. Is anything else on the agenda that’s going to be showing up? I know that’s going to be one of the topics, especially with Sandra coming back.

We got Sandra coming back. We got a confirmation from the National Association of Home Builders CEO Gerald Howard that’s going to come in. We are doing also a couple of unique signature sessions that we are super excited about. The night of the opening day, we are going to do a moderated debate. I’m going to moderate a debate between three brilliant lender members of ours. One is going to debate the position of everybody in the office work. One is going to be debating the hybrid model. One is going to be debating the completely remote model.

We are going to have a presidential election-style debate in that lenders will be making their case for why their model is the best. We will be doing the twelve days of the TMC virtual event this past December. An in-person event, an in-person version of a session we call the $100,000 Hour, so many amazing cost savings ideas that our members share with one another throughout the course of the year and not things that lenders would think about.

These are like, “I didn’t know you could do that or why have I not been doing that?” We compile them all. We picked the best, and then we have the lenders that submitted them in bite-size chunks on little 2, 3-minute presentations of their cost-saving idea. In one hour, we show your average-size mortgage lender how they can save $100,000 in a year through these accumulated cost savings ideas. It’s a few of the unique sessions that we will be doing in Miami.

It’s a great conference. You can learn more about it by going to the website. Rich, again for those that reading this or driving along, it’s a pretty easy website to go but give us the website one more time.

MortgageCollaborative.com.

Check it out, folks. It’s a great venue. If you haven’t been to the Fontainebleau, that in itself is a good reason to go but there’s so much more value and meaningful content that will be shared at this conference. I have been there many times. I hope to make it this year, and I’m very excited about that. I got my flights scheduled. I can’t wait to get to see everyone there. I love the in-person part of it and getting everyone together.

That is interesting that you’ve got the CEO of the National Association of Home Builders. I could be speaking there along with Sandra. That’s going to give us some really good insights. Kudos to. You are doing a great job of leading this organization, the growth in the membership, and the engagement with the membership. Creating meaningful contact is excellent. Thank you so much for meeting with us now.

Thank you, Dave, for all that you’ve done for us in our network and the great partnership we’ve had. Since the beginning, it’s always had a special place in our hearts for people that believed in TMC when we were six members a few years ago. I appreciate it and looking forward to seeing you in person in Miami.

I’m looking forward to it. Thank you so much. That is a great conference, and we are looking forward to being there. The speaker lineup is impressive. The good news is that I wasn’t certain when I first started recording if I was going to be able to be there but I’ve confirmed that I’m going to. I will be there. I’m looking forward to seeing you all there as well.

I want to talk about another episode we will be releasing. It’s an episode interview with Allan Weiss, former Cofounder and CEO of Case Shiller Weis. If everyone knows about the Case Shiller report, Allan was the one that came up with that idea and approached Dr. Case and Dr. Shiller about that. You will hear part of that story on the episode but he did a great job. It’s very exciting but now, he’s a Cofounder of Weiss Analytics as well as the Cofounder and CEO of Valshield.

Check out this interview. I strongly encourage you to see what’s going on there. Jack and I called each other right afterward, “Is someone thinking ahead of the curve? This is brilliant.” It’s not surprising that Allan, the previous Cofounder and CEO of Case Shiller Weiss, came up with what we are going to be talking about in this episode.

Next week we’re going to have Russ Anderson and Jack Nunnery. Jack’s always on each week but Russ is going to be talking to us about an important topic related to managing your money, and those independent mortgage bankers can learn from what banks do. Jack and Russ work together at Texas Capital Bank, and both have retired. I’m excited to have them on. That will be a part 1 and 2 episode.

I’m looking forward to having you all back here next time. A special thank you to our sponsors again, PennyMac, Lender Toolkit, SuccessKit, Snapdocs, the Mortgage Collaborative, Knowledge Coop, MBA, Modex, Mobility MMI, Insellerate, Lenders One, and Finastra. Now, our newest sponsor is Total Experts. It’s great to have them here with us. I’m thrilled to have all of these sponsors making this show possible. Have a great week, everybody. I look forward to having you back here next time.

Important Links

• The Mortgage Collaborative
• IndustrySyndicate.com
• DW Consulting
• Mortgage Bankers Association
• Mortgage Action Alliance
• Finastra’s Fusion Mortgagebot
• Lenders One
• Total Expert
• KnowledgeCoop.com
• Mobility MMI
• ALCOVA Mortgage
• Snapdocs
• SuccessKit.io
• Lender Toolkit
• PennyMac
• National Association of Home Builders
• Insellerate