In the modern business landscape, attracting business is emerging as a more effective and sustainable approach than chasing business. By focusing on building a strong brand, delivering value, and cultivating positive customer experiences, businesses can create an environment where customers are naturally drawn to their offerings. By embracing this paradigm shift, entrepreneurs and companies can unlock long-term success and establish themselves as leaders in their respective industries. In this episode, Tiffany Rose will explain the concept of attracting versus chasing business and shed light on why the former holds the key to sustainable success.
Attracting Versus Chasing Business With Tiffany Rose
I am excited to have a celebrity in the mortgage origination area coming on with us. She’s in the top 1% of lenders as an originator. She’s many years in the business. She has a personality that thrived through 2008. She’s not just surviving but continues to grow. One of the things we care about is you, the reader, reading positive messages about what you can do to grow your business.
There are a lot of people struggling. I was talking to one of the executive readers that runs production. The production people are getting caught up in our prices. If our prices were better, they’d focus on all the wrong things. I want to get a series of interviews going about that will help turn around the tide, turn your attitude around, and focus on what you can do to own and grow your business. Joining me in this episode is Tiffany Rose. I’m so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me. It is such an honor.
I love the title of our interview, Attracting Versus Chasing. It is something I have preached for years and I want to get your perspective on that. First of all, before we go there, tell us a little bit about your background, who you work for, and your journey to where you’re at.
I have worked at Guild Mortgage for several years. I love it. It is the best mortgage company to work for No commercial. It is up from the top Barry, Mary Ann, and Shayla. They’re been great. I love it there because I feel truly supported at Guild. I’ve been in the business for many years. I started telemarketing for a mortgage company in high school. I realized back then how to do open-ended versus close-ended questions and pass off warm leads, what equity was, and LTV. I didn’t even know what I was getting myself into this wild crazy mortgage business. I’ve been in it ever since. I have stumbled. I’ve won, thrived, cried, and everything under the sun. I’m here to live to tell about it and share my story.
Readers, if you could see her hands and motion, you would understand her energy level is super high and I love it. I love high-energy people. I’m drawn to that. One of the things you talk about in marketing and getting yourself out there is there’s a one-to-one sales approach and then one-to-many. That starts making sense but if you’d expand on that from your coaching and consulting that you do outside of your origination business, how do you describe this? What’s the best way for you to do one-to-many?
Over the years, what’s worked for us in our business, in the mortgage game, maybe isn’t the best approach going forward. There are some of the old-school things that never go away like the human interaction, the human connection, or the need to speak to a loan agent but where we lost our way a little bit is not harnessing like the power of video and the power of getting out there and speaking to thousands of people on your Facebook, LinkedIn, running Facebook ads or doing certain things instead of that one-to-one phone call, dinner, or coffee.
If you must do that, then do it with five real estate agents and divorce attorneys. Get them to bring their friends. When you mark it one-to-many, you’re going to be able to duplicate yourself more and attract those people out there on social media, for example, more than burning and trying to set coffee appointments.
I have three kids. I have four bonus children. We have seven together. I don’t have time to call umpteen people on a Monday and go have coffee in happy hours until my stomach hurts and have hangovers because I’m having all these happy hours, drinks, and dinner. I can’t do that with my lifestyle. The one-to-many approach is what we all should be doing but it’s worked for me hugely in many ways.
One-to-many is certainly what we’re preaching but you also touched on something when you’re talking about instead of one divorce attorney. In other words, what you’re hinting at when you said divorce attorney is the multiple ways and avenues passed to origination. It’s not just the realtor and builder relationship but there are many paths. Expound on a little bit of some of the different paths you’re seeing people take. You mention divorce attorneys. What are some others?
Divorce attorneys are huge because I’ve been divorced, unfortunately. I went to them. She was a great lady but she didn’t understand the title part of it. She sent me to a real estate attorney and then they sent me somewhere else. These people need direction. Some divorce attorneys don’t even understand how important it is to make sure you sign off the loan before you get off title. You’re giving away your rights and you are stuck on the loan. It’s very important to leverage those kinds of relationships but we can buy both each other and help the client together. Divorce attorneys are huge.
Solar is a huge one because there’s a lot of confusion in the market on leasing versus buying. “Where do we get the money? Do we pay it off? Are there PPAs? What is it?” A lot of solar has gotten the reputation of old car salesmen. There can be sleazy solar. When you partner up with someone who’s reputable and you give that information to the public on social media and use that power of video, it’s a way to get more market share. Remember it’s not the market. It’s the marketing. You have to find more ways to get more market share when you offer. That’s all there is to it. One-to-many and power videos are huge.
That’s why I can’t wait to get the power video. You talked about identifying money blocks. What is that about?
Somewhere along the line, as loan agents, we’ve been taught to be app takers and order takers. Some of us are very transactional. We forget that our clients have scarcity, lack issues, home ownership, worries, and fears. They think that it’s too much responsibility. I had a client who said, “I want to buy this investment property in Arizona but I don’t want to rob Peter to pay Paul.” I’m like, “If you think that taking equity out of your primary home when you have a fixed rate to go buy another investment property and harness the power of real estate, that’s a scarcity mentality.”
I had to talk him through that. He has a money block of owning too much real estate is scary but rich people invest in real estate to protect their earned income and grow their assets. They don’t do it because it’s scary and a huge liability. There are different opinions on that if you talk to Robert Kiyosaki versus this person or that. The power of real estate is huge. I help my clients humanize it and help them through maybe when they think that owning a home is too scary. They’d rather be stuck in the rinsing cycle because it’s less on their shoulders. That’s a money block.Real estate is scary, but rich people invest in real estate to protect their earned income and grow their assets. They don't do it because it's scary and it's a huge liability. Click To Tweet
It’s a great perspective. Money block is getting people out of their way of negative thinking and reframing things. That’s such a big role that we have. We play the biggest role of advisory in the average consumer’s life. I love that concept. There are a lot of great ideas out there but to achieve the top 1% as you have in the industry, you’ve had to do this by standing out in the market. What have you done to stand out in your market and the markets you serve?
It’s important for us as agents and loan officers to pick what you want to talk about. Pick your pillars. Mine is divorce, family, and funds. We are always out there on social media either educating, entertaining, or inspiring. If you’re posting yourself on vacation or your dinners and you’re not educating or inspiring, people don’t want to click on your stuff. I figured out how to stand out by giving value. I did a podcast with René Rodriguez, Learn With René.
He is huge on giving value in every single thing you do and that’s helped me stand out. If a divorced man or woman comes to me and needs help and guidance, I’m giving them true value instead of quoting a rate and being that commodity thinking. I’m standing the hand of hope and walking them through the process with love and good intentions and giving that value. It’s got me the referral and return business rather than that transactional way of thinking.
You talked about something called parasocial relationships. I want to get into that and why that has worked so well for you.
Think about your favorite movies. I remember in colleges across America, they’re watching Friends on Thursday nights or whenever it was. You cry and cheer for them. You feel like you know them. With parasocial relationships, you can do that with videos on social media by talking directly to your avatar. It is important. A lot of agents forget the word Avatar. When you’re speaking directly to someone, working your pillars, standing, and giving that value, they’re building up your social relationship where they feel like they know you. It’s called, “Win before you arrive.”
When I get loan applications by the time, people call me because they’ve been watching my videos and content. They already feel like they know me. They have maybe respect for me or they feel like there’s a friendship there. I don’t lose clients. They don’t reach up to me. They don’t trust me more than the average agent. It’s been a key to my success and it feels good. That’s why we’re doing this, to help people and serve instead of sell. That’s where I’ve found my group.
I love the concept of serving versus selling. If we’re known as a resource of valuable information, we’re serving that way, and we’re putting it out there, you’re going to track business because you’re attracting it as we talked about at the very beginning. Tiffany, you talk a little bit about lender versus realtor misconceptions. Explain that if you would.
I talk about this a lot because I’ve been in the business for many years. I’ve seen and experienced a lot. Somewhere along the way, we’ve become almost like a necessary evil to each other. Not all of us. Not all lenders or realtors. Realtors are unorganized and lenders run from problems. We don’t communicate. We over-promise. The way I’m changing the industry is to help build our reputation better so a realtor is excited to hear from us or know that they’re going to get the call with the updates. We’re not going to tell them about the close of the escrow date. We’re not closing escrow and the moving vans have to be canceled.
I’ll tell you a quick story. I was down at the bar and grill in Danville in one of my favorite restaurants. My friend said, “I want you to meet this guy. He’s in your arena. You guys would work well together.” He came up to me and said, “What do you do? Barbara wants me to meet you.” I said, “I’m a mortgage lender.” He said, “That’s why she wanted us to meet. I’m a realtor. Are you going to call me on Mondays, ask me for a bunch of deals, and have coffee and stuff?”
I was taken aback but I had to take a step back instead of saying, “I’m going to talk 1%. That’s wrong. You probably produce less than me.” Where my mind went versus what I said was, “I’m sorry. Lenders have not been the best. We haven’t worked on a reputation and shown up for you and your clients. I want to hear your story and I’m doing my best to change that.”
We ended up meeting and working together. With that response and that way I’m changing the industry, he wanted to share his story and who burned him in the past. We have a stigma about chasing real estate partners and CPAs, burning up the phone lines, cold calling, and over-promising. We’ve built up that reputation in a lot of ways for ourselves. I wanted to change that with real estate agents.
How are you doing that?
I am doing that by over-communicating, I have automation and systems in place. I have things like milestone videos where if I get a referral from the agent, I send a thank you for the referral video with captions and it’s edited. I copy their future client and let them know what’s next. People always want to know what the next steps are. When you say congrats to your CTC, some of us agents want to faint. We’re celebrating. We want to go to the bar and have a drink because we finally got this crazy loan clear to close but all people want to know what’s next.
When I do a video like that, I blast it out to the listing agent, the buyer’s agent, and the client. “Congrats, you’re clear to close.” “What does that mean?” “Here’s what’s next. The notary is not just going to show up at your house. You can sign wherever you need to. You don’t get the keys right now.” I answered those questions and it strengthened the relationship. It puts me as the authority the brain surgeon in the transaction instead of the one running or under-communicating.
Communication is such an important part of it and is the most important transaction in anyone’s life. I don’t care how many times they’ve done it. Even though they may have done it before and they may know the steps, they need to know where this transaction is at. It gives some color around that. You talked about the power of video. You use a lot of videos. It is something that you believe in. How did you get there? What did you have to overcome to be able to use that effectively?
In my first video, I did 63 takes. My kids were laughing. They are scrolling through my phone. They’re like, “How many takes did you do?” I looked and counted. I went, “Sixty-three.” I was sweating. I was having Imposter syndrome. “I shouldn’t be doing this. I’m not as good as this other person on social media. I had to work through it.” I had a beanie on. I was trying to be different or something. I had this hat on and it wasn’t even me. I was trying to copy other people.
When I did it, said yes to the process, and continued, over time I got better. I started realizing, “I was talking too slowly or fast.” Video is millions of times more effective than a text message or a photo of you. Imagine if you and I were doing this with our cameras off. It’d be a different dynamic. That’s a parasocial relationship. Giving that value is going to make you stand out.
If you’re not doing video and talking about your business on social media, whether it’s dentistry, loans, real estate, or whatever you’re doing, if you’re not using the power of video, you’re going to fall behind. You’re going to be stuck in that old-school cycle of chasing and burning out and not feeling good about yourself. Your clients will not know you as well as they would if you’re doing video like a restaurant down the street.
They said, “This is what we’re doing today. This is my family. My kids work here. This is what we stand for. This is the love we put into it and why we want to serve our community.” Imagine if your favorite restaurant, you’re seeing them pop up on social media all the time, are you going to want to go there more? You got to push through it. Do it. If you’re out there going, “I hate video,” do it. It ends up being very therapeutic and fun.
It’s less about presenting yourself in a way that you think will be desirable. It’s more about the message. You communicate from your heart. Let me get some tips from you that you found that helped in the messaging so you connect more effectively than pushing out something. What are some tips that you could lay out for readers?
I am a mortgage coach as well. I tell my students, “We’re all fighting for attention in three seconds on social media. If you take the time to say, ‘I’m David. Call me with questions,’ you’re losing people.” The best way to fight for that attention and stop the scroll is to give a hook. Are you struggling to get your offer accepted in this market? “Top three misconceptions about reverse mortgages,” when you do things like that, you get that hook and you tell a story, give the value and you have the call to action at the end, it’s a well-structured video.
I see branch managers, not at Guild, but in other places. I want to help and coach them because they spent all that time saying, “Rates are down but the market is good. Call me with questions.” I’m like, “What questions do they have? Why would someone want to call you? You don’t have to say your name and your phone number. It’s right there on your social media or bio.” Don’t use that time to say who you are. “If you have questions, call me at 925.” Go for it and give the hook, value, and call to action.
What social media platforms do you find video works most effectively for you?
I love Facebook and Instagram because it’s widely used. I do it on LinkedIn as well but I’ve learned how to create a video, repurpose it, and blast it out to every platform. I’m not the best at TikTok but I put it out there and give some videos. At least I have a presence there. My jam is Facebook and Instagram but I also run Facebook Ads. It’s very easy to connect to Instagram.
I was going to ask you about TikTok and if that’s something that you find effective. I see some using it, Instagram certainly more but it’s these shorts. On Facebook, they have short videos where you can do the shorts versus the longer videos. Is there any ideal size that you find that’s more effective?
30 seconds to 1 minute with the proper format that I mentioned, yes. I have a cousin. She’s funny and amazing. Go follow her on social media if you want to laugh but she had to put so much time and effort and go all in on it. TikTok forgot about you very quickly. It’s different than the Facebook platform or even Instagram. You have to post 3 or 4 times a day.
It has to be funny, moving, or inspiring. You have to do it so much. She has a million-something followers and she still doesn’t get very much money for the ads and the things that she’s doing. I do believe that anything you decide to commit to go all in, you’re going to be successful. If you’re starting with a video and trying to pick a platform to get out there and build up that parasocial relationship, I don’t believe that TikTok is the place to do it unless you’re going to do it consistently for 1 year or 2.Anything you decide to commit to go all in on, you're going to be successful. Click To Tweet
I always wonder about the TikTok platform. There are a lot of different things from a security standpoint that’s happening with that. When you are coaching people, what’s your approach to coaching? How do you differentiate yourself in that area?
I hit on the attracting versus chasing, being on other people’s frequencies and speaking directly to them. I teach my students, “When you’re out there on social media, instead of saying, ‘It’s Tiffany. If you’re going through a divorce, I’ve been there and I understand you,’ you’re speaking to your avatar directly.” It feels good and it helps the community. That’s what I help my students understand, “That’s how you’re attracting the business. You’re becoming like the mind reader where people go, ‘How did she know? I feel like she’s talking to me,’ instead of being so vague and casting out this big net.”
When you trust that the universe is going to give you the people that need you, you need them, and it’s going to align, and you take that aligned action, you got to work your butts off. Unfortunately, in anything in life, you have to work hard. The business isn’t going to find you. When you’re taking the aligned action, you’re speaking directly from the heart and serving like what we talked about as well. That’s what I helped my students do to grow their business through the power of social media and Facebook Ads.
Facebook Ads have to be good. I messed up many years ago. I was running Facebook Ads and I was like, “Why are they not working?” I was saying, “Buy my thing.” Nobody wants to see an ad saying, “Apply for a loan today.” When you give that value and you get people to know, like, and trust you, then they’re going to come back and want to apply but the call to action cannot always be my thing. People are going to be like, “Tiffany? Who is this girl who keeps saying to apply for a loan? Why would I want to work with her? I don’t even know who she is or what she stands for.”
That is a huge shift that I’ve helped my clients and students make. I do believe in 75% mindset and 25% skillset. The mind is getting people to believe in themselves and the vehicle. “Believe me,” is huge. You have to believe in yourself that you can do it, you’re as consistent as possible, you’re doing the right thing, you love your clients, and you’re walking in alignment with the results that you want. Mindset is huge in any business.Business is 75% mindset and 25% skillset. Click To Tweet
You are talking about your students. How do you go about coaching? It sounds like you have different programs.
I have Ignite Mortgage Loan Originator Academy. They go to a webinar. We do a 3-day event for $47 every month. It’s a virtual live event for three days. It’s fifteen hours of coaching. You get it and add zeros to the $47 because what you walk away with is key. Here’s the key. Information is not necessarily power. It’s what you do with that information. That’s why anybody that you meet that’s successful, most people have a coach.
Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi have a coach. You need that guidance, accountability, and support. That’s why mentorship in masterminds is so important because we can get all this information. If someone’s reading this and is like, “I’m going to go do video, tips that I need a hook, a call to action, and stop seeing, ‘Buy my thing,’” the chances of you implementing it, doing it correctly, and being consistent are slim to none.
Everybody should have that coaching and that’s what I provide. I have one course. It’s a twelve-month course. I love it when people attend and get to know me first on virtual live events. You walk away with so many insane nuggets of information. It’s fun. I like to talk. I talk fast. I use my hands a lot. I’m on Zoom. I have hundreds of people watching. It’s very exhilarating. I love that I’m helping my fellow loan officers.
I told my boss, Bob Cooley, the best Branch Manager ever at Guild, “When I crack the code and I don’t have to chase in a cold call, burn out, coffee, and one-to-one mentality, I’m going to share it with my fellow mortgage lenders.” He said, “I’m going to hold you to it.” I finally cracked the code on it and it feels good. I’m helping my lending community because there is a lot of pain in the market.
A lot of people are focusing on the negative and what isn’t getting done rather than what they can do, which is why I’m so excited to have you. How can they learn more about you? Do you have a website you’d recommend everyone go to?
You can go to TiffanyRoseCoaching.com/Invincible. My event is Invincible Lender every month. It’s fifteen hours of coaching. You can also go to LoansByTiffanyRose.com if you’re looking for loans. I do it all. I wear many hats. Why not? I have been in the business too long to not get into the coaching space as well. Those are the best ways to reach me.
I appreciate you being here with us and sharing your knowledge, experience, and some insights into how others can get focused on what they can do to make a difference and differentiate themselves. I love that. Thank you so much. One-to-many is a good takeaway. How are we doing better at doing one-to-many?
I love money blocks. What’s keeping you from thinking properly about real estate? Your class thinking properly about real estate is where the vocal point is. Parasocial was something I hadn’t heard before. Tiffany, this has been very good. I look forward to having you back sometime. I appreciate you. I wish you all the success in the world. Thanks for sharing with our audience.
You are amazing as always. Thank you so much. It’s been an honor.
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