The first half of the Lykken on Lending program will feature our Weekly Updates….to read more info about our regulars and weekly updates go to our website!
Weekly Updates With Alice, Allen, Matt, Les, And Rob
This show is created by mortgage professionals. It is for mortgage professionals. We’re so grateful to you readers for taking the time to read. Not only that but giving us feedback and sending us texts during this. A lot of people say, “Lykken, how do we text you?” Text my cell phone or go on LinkedIn. That’s why there are two things we monitor when I’m looking at things. You can text me at (512) 632-2900 and I always try to get to all your questions. I certainly do appreciate the feedback as it’s coming in and grateful.
Our commitment is to bring you timely information in a format that you can read anytime and anywhere. In the last episode, we touched on a headline that got a lot of positive feedback. It’s the lawsuit that’s taking place that was in the National Mortgage News. It had to do with Tammy Richards, who I know and have met numerous times. I have a great deal of respect for her. She is suing the organization she used to be with, Loan Depot, another organization, for which we’ve all admired their success and where they’re at.
There were some issues that were brought up there. Something about how the company was a fraternity, more of a frat house environment. Those are my words. I’m not sure I’m saying that accurately, but there was some comment there. Also, a lot of comments about the pressure that she felt to change guidelines for the sake of production. It has come up a lot since we focused on that and a lot of people appreciated the fact we brought it up, especially when I focused on the culture. We had another incident. We had a very good coach that I admire. I’m so sure I’ve always appreciated him when he knew that Ohio State, but Urban Meyers, for those of you aware of it and Urban Meyers found himself in a compromising situation.
He was in a bar and out for dinner and then he was invited into the bar setting to celebrate with some people. A young female was dancing and backed up and looked like she had inappropriate contact. Here’s the reason I’m bringing up. We’ve got the annual NBA conference coming up and I think one of the things is that we need all of us to be aware of situations we can find ourselves in.
Certainly, that situation, Urban Meyer did not bring that on. I’m not going to get in and talk about what’s in the heart of Urban Meyer, but he has published how absolutely faithful he is to his family, and how it’s family first. He watched the interview afterward. He said, “I should have left. I went into the bar and I found myself in this situation and I shouldn’t have been there. The best way to avoid is not to be there.”
One of the questions I’d love to get feedback from our readers is how you create a culture where we’re doing things politically correct, but that doesn’t shut down life. As we get into the conference season, preparing ourselves and thinking ahead, when I saw this, this came up with one of my clients, brought it up, and said, “What do you recommend? How we use this as an opportunity to teach?” That’s exactly what it is. At the moment, where you’ll look at this and I think the thing is, is anticipate where you find yourselves in the situation.
What is the potential and what would you do if someone was there recording you and your action and you’re a leader in your company? Alice, want to get a great comment. I always respect you so much as a true consummate professional in the industry. You’ve managed through so many different situations over your life. Commentary real quick. Your thoughts?
Not obviously knowing all the facts and not wanting to zero in on that specific incident, it’s in general when we get into public settings. First of all, alcohol is usually a factor in many of these. Our advice over the years was don’t drink when you’re around clients or you’re in a potential scenario where you might not have the same level of common sense if you didn’t drink. I’ll throw that one out there since we’re talking about the conference.
How you react is also going to be measured. As you’re saying, that is what is so important. Someone who makes a mistake nowadays assumes everything’s being recorded. You can’t assume what if. Assume somebody is out there with a cell phone and is going to capture something and then know how you’re going to react and don’t get yourself in those situations in the first place. It’s always been my motto. Good things start getting out of hand, leave.Just assume somebody out there with a cell phone is going to capture something and then know how you're going to react. Click To Tweet
If you’re uncomfortable, leave. If you see a potential for a situation, leave. Why am I missing a connection? “I might miss a connection.” This connection or have this kind of publicity coming out. Jack, you’ve managed a lot of people over the years. Do you have thoughts on this and quick guidance?
David, I saw the video and you have to know that when you are in a leadership position, you are setting the tone for the culture. Clearly, urban, as I looked at the video, could have easily gotten up and walked away and got himself out of the situation. I think it was poor judgment on his part to not take a definitive move to extricate himself from what was going on. You got to keep in mind, if you’re the leader, the team looks to you to set the guidelines for the culture of the organization. This was a fail, David.
It was a fail. He owned it. He apologized to the team. The only reason I’m bringing someone, not bagging on Urban Meyer, what I’m bringing it up is we’re getting ready for conferences and we’re getting it back to check. All HR issues fell by tenfold when we started working from home. That was a hilarious comment you made as we were talking. It’s so true. It’s awareness. We are coming to the conference. Be aware of things.
What is your behavior saying? What is it communicating? Let’s not get so paranoid that we can’t be ourselves, but in being ourselves, let’s use some wisdom. That’s one of the reasons before I get up. Anyway, let’s move on. I’m so excited to have to join us on the Hot Topic segment, Karen Jenkins, Senior Product Manager at Finastra, who is now become the number one FinTech company in the world.
Folks, when we have someone who is number one, we got some wonderful insights into what they’re thinking. Karen Jenkins, Senior Product Manager, will be here with us. Finastra, we’re proud to have the number one FinTech company in the world as our sponsor. We are so grateful. We’re talking about digital transformation and what it means to Finastra and much it can mean to you.
Sure, it could be a good perspective when you’re talking to one of the industry leaders. They spend a lot of time thinking about it. We’ll be getting into that. Stay tuned for the Hot Topic segment. Also want to say a special thank you to this Industry Syndicate. They’re doing a great job of creating and promoting and sponsoring, producing great podcasts. Check out IndustrySyndicate.com. We’re featured on that as one of the channels whereby we published. I encourage you to check it out.
Josh and I are putting together another one. We’re getting ready to start soon. I’m real excited about that. A lot of podcasts out there and I think more and more make yourself aware of it. Also setting up for one of our clients, an internal podcast for their own company. This is a growing segment of podcasting internal subscriptions for your group-only podcast. Helping do that for one of our clients. That’s very exciting.
I want to say special thank you to our sponsors, the Mortgage Bankers Association of America as well as Finastra. We have our special guest. Their MortgageBot solution caps into robust features such as user-defined groups for processors, underwriters, and closers that rely on automated email notifications for various stages of the loan process. Encourage you to check out Finastra’s Fusion MortgageBot Solution. That’s been around a long time but they’ve done a lot of enhancements and we’re going to be hearing more about what Karen and her team at Finastra got a plan for the future.
Also, I want to say a thank you to Lenders One and The Mortgage Collaborative. Both of these are co-ops that do a great job of bringing to gather intimate settings, the lenders and the vendors helping you as a lender become more familiar with what others are experiencing and get in a more intimate environment. Also, CMLA, Community Mortgage Lenders of America do a great job, as well as Insellerate.
I love what Josh’s friend and his group do there. We drive a lot of business over to Josh, and I encourage you to check out Insellerate.com. Check out what Josh has built over there, especially when you’re not looking at innovative ways in which you can interact with customers. Got a lot of wisdom in that guy. Knowledge Coop does a great job with their learning management system as well as Mobility MMI and Modex. These are two great business intelligence tools, helping you find the right LOs and find out which realtors are doing the business. Both of them have insights into the real estate world.
Our newest sponsor Snapdocs. I love these guys. I love what they’re doing, and their vision. I’m telling you, pay attention to what Snapdocs has got planned to do. They got some very innovative things happening there. Also, a special thank you to Rob, Les, Alice, Allen, Matt, and Jack. Let’s get over to Rob Van Raaphorst for MBA Mortgage Minute.
I’m Rob Van Raaphorst. Welcome to the Mortgage Minute and the latest news from the Mortgage Bankers Association. The USDA and HUD removed their September 30th, 2021 deadline for borrowers to request an initial COVID-19 for borrowers. Borrowers will now have until the expiration of the COVID-19 national emergency to request an initial forbearance, which will provide them with up to twelve months of forbearance.
Also, FHA released its proposed COVID-19 40-year loan modification plan on the HUD drafting table for public comment. Finally, according to MBA’s latest forbearance and call volume survey, the total number of loans now in forbearance has decreased to 2.89% with an estimated 1.4 million homeowners in forbearance plans. That’s it. Thank you for joining me.
That’s encouraging news about the forbearance. The numbers seem to be coming down and that’s awesome. If you look at overall what’s going on in the industry, you’re looking at COVID and a lot of people are talking, should we be going to the MBA? I know registrations are down. We know that for a fact. We anticipated that. Nonetheless, if you look at the agenda, and what they have planned, there is a solid agenda. You need to be there. You need to get registered. You do need to get tested before you go.
That is something that they’re not going to comment on because a lot of people are annoyed with that. The reality is we want everyone to be there and they want to be safe. The MBA is a leader in the industry. They’re leading by saying, “Get yourself a COVID test before you go in there and bring that proof of immunization.” I look forward to seeing you in San Diego. Let’s get over to Les Parker for this week’s TM Spotlight and a macro view of the markets. What do you got for us, Les?
TM Spotlight sound bite is brought to you by PowerSeller, making hedging easy. Stock and bond prices are falling. They wonder about the production and shipping bottlenecks along with the rising cost of energy which wreaks havoc on inflation. Meanwhile, spooky news came from the sudden departure of two Fed presidents and a senator calling Fed Chairman Powell dangerous.
Markets like predictability and certainty, will the news complicate the major central banks taking the punch bowl away? Who sobers up Congress that drank the punch bowl of quantitative easing and demands more liquidity to drink? Spend and make your way back home when you learn to. Sign up at TMSpotlight.com. By the way, these views are my own and get you home.
For those of you that know, Les publishes a music parody every morning. His TMSpotlight.com newsletter is a commentary about the markets, and how he does that is amazing. It’s good and consistent. A lot of people enjoy it. I love it. I’m glad he contributes each and every week. You can sign up and get a newsletter by going to TMSpotlight.com and signing up for free and you can use the paid version for free. Put in the word Power for PowerSeller. I’m grateful to have Les here to contribute. Good job, Les Parker and Gary. I appreciate it. Matt Graham’s a busy guy. He couldn’t be here, but he did send in a recording so let’s see what Matt has to say about what happened and what we look forward to in the markets.
This is Matt Graham with the MBS Live Market Update. In many ways, last week was about finding our range after the previous week’s heavy selloff. That is the one that’s followed but isn’t necessarily directly related to the Fed’s tapering indications that the Fed announced a few weeks ago. The Fed was a catalyst for the selloff, but there were other factors involved.
We’ve talked about some of those and the decline in daily COVID case counts is certainly important in that regard. The debt ceiling and potential government shutdown issues have been mostly noise as far as traders are concerned. Even amid new headlines saying that a reconciliation vote is possible in the Senate, we haven’t seen a ton of movement in the bond market and the movement we have seen is counterintuitive suggesting that there are other factors in play when it comes to motivating bonds.
As far as economic data, it was overlooked because markets were caught up in trading based on momentum and technical, as opposed to reacting to new incoming data points. The durable goods data for August. It did come in quite a bit stronger than expected on Monday, 1.8% versus 0.7%. Home prices surged on Tuesday. This is a little bit stale because home price reports run a couple of months behind. In this case, we’re looking at July’s prices, but that’s significant because that will be the first of three months that comprise the final quarter of price appreciation.
That will then inform conforming loan limits that are announced at the end of November. There’s quite a bit of buzz about that last week as PennyMac and then a few other lenders temporarily or unexpectedly upped their “loan limit” to 625,000 for every county, as opposed to the normal conforming loan limit.
This is not a new loan limit. It’s a promotional strategy that a few lenders are implementing based on the near certainty that 625,000 will end up being low, probably too low, almost certainly too low, or new loan limits to come in at. The reason we know that is simply looking at quarter 2 versus quarter 3 in 2020. We’re already pretty close to that, and it would only take the amount of appreciation that we’ve already seen reported in July to hit something around 627,000. Any additional appreciation in the next two months, of course, those two months have already happened, but once they’re reported, will only increase the conforming loan limit from 627,000 to something higher by the time it is announced.
From that, the treasury auction cycle. It was a 2, 5, and 7-year cycle that was condensed Monday and Tuesday. In the past few months, we’ve seen positive reactions after weakness heading into a treasury auction cycle. This time around arguably yes yields did top out on Tuesday, but it wasn’t the resounding post-auction surge that we’ve seen on several occasions and the bonds flattened out for the most part for the rest of the week. It’s acquiescing to the new higher yield range that we broke into the previous week.
In terms of outright levels, if tenure yields aren’t breaking back below, let’s say 1.44% to 1.45%, we’re continuing to accept this new higher trading range. Indeed, it’s hard to see what exactly it would take for yields to break back into the previous range if we’re not having a resurgence in COVID case counts or significant weakness in economic data.
This Friday brings this week’s biggest economic report in the form of non-farm payrolls. The big Jobs Report, and this is the one that the Fed referenced, saying it only needs to be mediocre in order for the tapering announcement to go ahead in November. One dark horse in that race is that a significantly stronger jobs report could cause some buzz about the Fed making an intermitting announcement since November. It is still a ways away and that would get yields screening higher at a fairly rapid pace, but it would take something well over 1 million jobs created, which is currently not expected.
In fact, the forecast is all the way down to 488,000 up from 235,000 last time. These are well off the numbers that we had been talking about where the Fed said we could taper if we saw NFP numbers around 1 million, give or take. Of course, we saw one that was pretty close but not multiple successive numbers. We saw two that were close, so 850,000 and then 943,000. The most recent one was 235,000. A slight uptake from there. Anything that’s remotely close to 488,000.
The forecast for Friday is assumed to be good enough for the Fed to announce tapering. Other than that, ISM, non-manufacturing would be another significant report. Of course, ADP employment on Wednesday morning always has a little bit of market movement potential as well. That will do it. As always, remember, readers, get a free double-time trial with no credit card requirement on MBS Live simply by entering the code LOL in the signup screen on MBSLive.net.
Good job, Matt. I appreciate it very much. I got to get over to feedback on the report with Jack. Someone wrote me Jack and said, “What are you doing asking Jack about commentary about the markets? He’s retired now. He doesn’t have no time to look at that.” I think you said you’re never going to get caught flatfooted again. What’s your thought? You’re a very astute observer of the markets. Real quick, what do you got? Any thoughts as we look at this?
From my standpoint, the markets are extremely nervous right now. The key drivers, Fed tapering the supply chain disruption and inflation. Friday’s report on personal consumption or consumer expenditures showed that it was the highest annualized inflation run rate since 1991. In the Eurozone, the inflation is highest it has been in thirteen years. Those three things to keep an eye on. As Matt said, Job Reports, big this week. The one thing that is nagging out there right now is a geopolitical event that’s a China saber rattling with Taiwan and the flyover of the jet. If anything happens over there, look for a huge rally in bonds and selloff and equity.The markets are extremely nervous right now. Click To Tweet
Thanks, Jack. Appreciate it. Alice Alvey is here with another report. Alice has been here with me from the very beginning. She’s the first one I reached out to. “We’re doing this thing called a podcast. Can you do it?” She goes, “What are we going to talk about?” Years into this, she’s got another report. Alice Alvey, Vice President of Education and Training at Union Home Mortgage with a legislative update. Thanks, Alice. What do you got?
First of all, Dave, are you kidding me? Jack is such a great wealth of knowledge. He wouldn’t have to listen to the market. He could listen to Matt’s report and with all his knowledge he would be able to tell us what is going on because history always repeats itself. I love hearing Jack’s knowledge. He’s calm. There’s no panic because I know he’s been there and done that. Let’s get those words of wisdom for what we can expect and how we can manage through it.
I also want to thank Matt in his report for touching on the agency loan limits because that was a little bit of a thing with loan officers going, “How come we aren’t announcing the new agency loan limit?” Having to go through the fact that the agencies haven’t announced the number and there are some entities out there hedging their bets on where they think it may be. Hanging onto those loans until they’re able to be delivered based on when Fannie and Freddie announced that new number.
That’s what’s going on for those of you who are going to hang, “How come I don’t have 625,000?” Read Matt’s report. He gave a good explanation. From my report, MBA update, they announced the COVID-19 recovery modification that FHA has out on their drafting table. I want to make sure everybody’s clear on this. This is related to borrowers who are in foreclosure coming out of their COVID-19 forbearance and what it looks like.
There is a waterfall process. Certainly going to be trying 30-year terms and make sure the borrower’s team is going to be reducing enough. What this is all about is FHA opening up and offering a 40-year term option after all the other options are exhausted. A person won’t be able to go with that and be able to, “Amortize my loan over the longest possible.”
If we meet the minimum of reducing it by 25% at one of the earlier steps in the waterfall, those will have to apply. This is only for those customers that it makes sense. They’ve got jobs. They’re able to repay and they needed a little bit more to get that payment down in order to be able to afford it. Take a look at that. File any comments that you may have. It does have to include a partial claim with that 40-year submission.
We have Rohit Chopra as our new CFPB Director. That was another thing I thought was excellent. Make sure everyone takes a look at that. We now have a director who’s going to be very focused on fair lending. As lenders, we all have our radar up. Last but not least is the congressional budget. The 2022 budget reconciliation package does have this unlocking possibilities program as part of it. MBA did send a letter to Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and others. This is a letter that was done in conjunction with many other entities to be able to make sure that this grant program stays within the budget. It is $300 million and the grant money is made available to states and cities and counties for housing improvements.
In that, all it requires is that there’s a matching grant. It’s not wide-open money, but this program would continue for states, cities, and counties if they have matching funds. These federal funds will be able to match that amount for the grant for housing improvement. It’s a great package to make sure it stays included in the budget. Not big dollars relative to everything else that’s being talked about, but an important one for our industry that we will keep watching.
Clarifying group home ruling, FIFA did clarify that Freddie rolled that out with group homes. A minor little piece out there, but in keeping with how they’re aligned with Fannie. If you’ve got a group home, you’re going to be able to continue forward with getting the occupancy correct, but you wouldn’t have to exclude it for Freddie delivery, thinking that it’s an income-producing property that wouldn’t qualify. They do qualify and all that’s cleared up now.
Cleared up and Alice made it clear. Very good, thank you. Appreciate it a bunch, Alice. For those of you who wanted to download, look at all this Alice’s comments or any of the comments and here we put them all on our website. You can download and read them anytime by going over to that part of the website. Each one of our segments is all stacked up there. People say, “I want to go back and read what Alice said on this day. I don’t want to go through the whole episode.” You don’t have to. Go to the website. Check it out. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, Alice. Let’s get over to Allen Pollack with this week’s weekly tech update. Allen, how are you doing?
Thank you, David Lykken. I’m good to be here. Thanks, everybody for reading. We’re going to do some real-time math calculations and you’re at the end of this segment, so get your brain ready, David, because you’re going to be my guinea pig for the process. A couple of things going on. The first one that I wanted to chat about is Taco Day. If every day is Taco Day and ultimately, get this, in twenty participating restaurants across Tucson, Arizona, customers can pay between $5 to $10 a month for what’s called a Taco Lover’s Pass, which gives a subscription one taco a day for 30 days.
I don’t know if anybody reading wants to go get the Taco Lover’s Pass. I’ll pay for it because I would like a review of how those tacos went, one every day for 30 days. More exciting stuff in the news. If you’re a Taco Bell fan you can get a soft taco, a spicy potato soft taco, crunchy tacos, or even their Dorito taco. Enjoy your tacos.
Allen, I love your humor, but what the heck does this have to do with the technology of the market demonstration?
It doesn’t. It’s fun news. I got other fun technology stuff. Let’s talk about Google because we market with Google all the time. Google has been transitioning. They’ve done a good job giving us insight into what happens on their system. We know they’ve already gone beyond the ten blue links that they offer and they’ve done more. Now what they’re going to do is offer things to no boxes around a given search.
Think about that. Imagine if you’re advertising as a lender to help borrowers understand that you offer VA programs or to help them understand that homeownership and affordability is something you can cure or you can help them with. There’s now going to be things that they’re offering things to know. I don’t know how you connect with that, but you want to find out with your marketing company.
It’s returning, but they’re going to be enhancing the subsections of videos. Think about using videos in your approach to market your company. I know a lot of lenders that read us do videos and some of them have internal production companies that do a fantastic job. Continue to think about connecting the dots between natural text and actual videos.
The last one is they’re continuing to expand upon Google Lens and the ability to do the image recognition and the data extraction off of those images and connect them to the search results. Consider creating one-page infographics, things that help continue to market. Marketing is no longer paying to have your links on the site. Technology now has enabled this three-legged stool for the moment. I gave you three points. Consider Google and the changes they’re making as you consider your marketing efforts and how you’re going to expand, especially as rates may possibly change in the future.
David, this one’s not mortgage-related, but get this. I’m not a Star Trek fan by the way, but I know that there are a lot of Star Trek fans that read. Ninety-year-old William Shatner, out of Texas on October 12th, will be officially the oldest person to travel to space. I thought that was pretty cool. Now let’s talk about tech. Regions Bank acquires a home improvement lender. It’s called EnerBank and they’re a point-of-sale technology platform. They’re a lender and they serve homeowners and contractors and provide the ability without a home equity loan as an example to acquire a mortgage.
They’ve served more than 1 million homeowners since inception, and they work with over 10,000 contractors. They’ve been able to get out there and help contractors and homeowners afford those home improvements. Regions bank is a huge deal. They not only get to acquire the technology, but they also get to acquire not only the customers but think of all the additional funding options that they can put inside of this and use that technology for.
They’re a local bank here in Florida, by the way. I know a lot of people that love them. They also do a lot of business banking, so kudos to them. David, talking about MBA national, I got to bring this up. It is technology. You can go on the internet, you can search Forbes Advisor and search for COVID travel insurance. You can get a plan. I looked at Tin Leg, there were twenty of them, and I did an online search. I found that you can ensure your entire trip to MBA National and it’s about $65 to $90. There are all kinds of insurance plans out there. Some of them will allow you to cancel for no reason. Some allow you to cancel if it turns out you have COVID and you’ve already booked and paid for the trip. Check it out.
Don’t forget. It’s on Forbes Advisor. There’s an online search engine that will get you to our mortgage technology conference if you haven’t been vaccinated. Redfin, David, huge asking. Prices are up at an all-time high. They basically did a survey. They’re using all kinds of technology. Pending sales were up 4%. They’re saying that technology is helping drive this information.
Imagine if the technology can be used to tell us every time that you look at a house based on similar deals or if you’re looking to shop. Is that deal likely to go fast or not go fast? I’ve been looking at real estate in my area, I’m looking to buy, and I can tell you right now that there are homes that keep coming back on the market. One of them two times already. There are homes that are pending way too long. What does the analytical data tell us?
We watch a football game and we know the percentage of time that person has caught the ball based on the risk of where we are and how much time’s left in the game and who the teams are and who’s out sick and who’s not. Why don’t we know more about our real estate and why don’t we know more about how a mortgage transaction can help you get in front of that? Those are awesome stuff that Redfin’s reporting about. I got to tell you. We need to do better with AI to help determine more. I know there are some number crunchers reading this that are probably like, “I’ve seen it. I’ve done it.” We’d love to hear from you, but that’s where I think AI needs to go with some of that stuff.
There’s a last thing I want to get into. I’ll save some of the stuff for next time. Build versus buy. We’re going to get some real-time numbers. Last time, I talked about that. I found an online calculator. For building, it’s the cost to build the software. For buying, it’s the cost of licensing. This calculator says the cost of technology. I took an enterprise platform for about $5,000 a month. I rounded up $75,000 a year.
If you’re going to build the same software, you need four employees. Let’s say it takes 26 months. Wait until you hear these numbers. No one can build tech in 26 months that you’re going to pay $5,000 a month for it. I did an average employee salary of $80,000 a year with 25% overhead. Each employee is about $100,000 a year. To build the software, it’s going to be $2.4 million with annual maintenance of $60,000. If you were to license software, it would be unbelievably less money than that. I can modify these numbers. I can say to only give you two employees. It still comes to $1.2 million, and you can’t build it in that amount of time.
I know it’s a big discussion that goes on in a lot of shops. “Can we make this cheaper?” I got to tell you. It’s getting harder and harder to come to that point to do. Make or buy, it seems to be buy. Buy as close as you can to that and then work with the vendor. We’re fortunate to have a special guest, a vendor, that can help you with that. I’m very excited.
Allen, great job on the report. If you wanted to write Allen, several of you are texting me that says, “I got some information I’d like to get over to Allen,” [email protected]. He’ll get this, and he’ll bring your comments to this. Thanks for being here, Allen. Appreciate it so much. Folks, that wraps up the first part of the show. Next episode, we’ve got Christy Moss with FormFree joining us.
I’m very excited. It’s always fun to have the folks from FormFree, especially Christy. There are so many places we go with Christy. She is a one-man promotional band when it comes to promoting and being a champion in social media. Getting the word out. We’ve got a lot of questions for our good friend Christy Moss back with us next time.
Be sure to tell others about the next episode and join us here. I want to say again special thank you to our sponsors, Finastra, CMLA, Lenders One, Insellerate, Mobility MMI, Mortgage Market Intelligence, Modex, as well as MBA, Knowledge Coop, The Mortgage Collaborative, and Snapdocs, our newest sponsor. Thank you, folks, for being here and sharing this show with others, and increasing our audience. Appreciate it so much. See you back here next time.
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