In this engaging episode of Lykken on Lending, host David Lykken is joined by the inspiring and dynamic Sue Woodard, a renowned voice in the mortgage and fintech industries. Together with co-host Allen Pollack, they dive into the complexities of lender-vendor relationships, discussing challenges, opportunities, and the critical human element in mortgage technology. Sue, leveraging her unique perspective as both a former lender and a consultant, shares invaluable insights into fostering healthier partnerships between lenders and vendors. From the importance of communication, trust, and empathy to practical strategies like executive business reviews and proactive data intelligence, this episode is a masterclass in relationship building within the industry. They also explore the transformative role of AI and predictive data in reshaping mortgage technology while emphasizing that no amount of innovation can replace the essential human connection. Whether you’re a lender, vendor, or simply interested in the future of mortgage tech, this episode offers a wealth of insights to inspire and inform.
[David] Good to have you back with another podcast listeners. I’m excited to bring on a real special friend. Sue Woodard. You all know Sue, there’s no question about it. she’s like on every channel of Facebook or LinkedIn or social media. She dominates and she’s more importantly, just such an incredible human being. when I first started working with Sue, was going like, can she be real? she’s so pleasant. And I heard her speak. I was just blown away with her speaking ability and they go, can she be real? And then you get to know her personally and you go like, my gosh. This is one of the most special people on the planet. So I’m really excited to have you Sue joining us on the podcast today.
[Sue] My gosh, I’m gonna come here more often. This is like the most uplifted I’ve been in a long time. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Truly, it’s my honor.
[David] Yeah. You bet. Joining me on the podcast. In fact, we got to give Allen Pollack the credit for this podcast because he read something you wrote Sue that was really, something that’s significant. said, Dave, we got to get Sue on the podcast. And he said, you know her. said, yeah, really well. Dear, dear personal friend. And he says, let’s go for it. So Allen, would you tee up for our listeners, what we’re going to be talking about.
[Allen] Yeah, the topic was amazing being on the vendor side and the lender side for so many years, hearing what you said about, I think it was relationship counseling was just spot on. So the title of the podcast today, I thought this was great. Inside the Mind of Sue Woodard, Unpacking the Human Element of Mortgage Tech Relationships. And, you know, I’ve got an opening icebreaker for you, Sue. In the world of ChatGPT, I couldn’t write this all on my own. I had to ask for a few tips and GPT did a good job on this one. So here’s what GPT said. So Sue, let’s settle this right now. Who’s the bigger problem in lender vendor relationships, the lenders or the vendors? And do they need a prenup or just a good therapist?
[Sue] Well, I’d be curious to know what ChatGPT would answer to itself from that question, but it’s a good question. And yes, this is from my article, Couples Therapy. And I think it’s too late for prenup. These folks need a therapist and it’s interesting. It’s like just like real life relationships. Some people stay in the partnership because they have a contract in place, but they’re really not very happy. Some people feel like they made a good choice, but they’ve got these recurring frustrations that come up. And then every now and then you see a truly healthy, happy, positive relationship, not that it’s without its challenges, but they seem to have found a way to resolve it with or without therapy. it’s like I said, neither are at fault. It’s just a little bit of both.
[David] And I think you really raise a really good point there, Sue, because there are so many people that are frustrated with their various vendors and it can be very much a love-hate relationship. And that’s when says, Dave, you got to read this article Sue wrote. And first of all, I don’t know what you’re a better, a better speaker, a better writer. That was so well written and it really shined the light on what I think is an issue that I want lender listeners to plug into and maybe our vendor listeners as well because the key is how do you get to this point where you have that unusual, so I think that sadly is more of an unusual relationship where it just works.
[Sue] Yeah, that’s really a good point. I think having been on the lender side myself and on the vendor side, I’m now in this unique position as a consultant where you can see it much like a therapist in a little bit more of a rational, non emotional way. And, I think some of the answers to it are just very similar to, and I know we’ll unpack some of this, but it’s very similar to any relationship, right? When you think about the building blocks of a healthy relationship, it’s about open communication is one of the most important things. Trust, owning up to it when you’ve made a mistake, having empathy, all of these things that are super foundational. And we do have some specific things to talk about in the lender-vendor relationship. And I say vendor, by the way, particularly rather than partner, even though I always talk about vendors as partners. it’s just sometimes can get complicated in consulting land to talk about partners. so we’re calling it lender and vendor in this particular conversation, but it’s not the same thing. It’s not really exactly an equal partnership. It’s got nuance to it that a human relationship between two people, two partners don’t really have. And so I know we’ll get into some of the particular tactics.
[Allen] eing on both sides, right? And David and I have been there as well. What would be one good example, just to kind of tee off this conversation of somebody that needed relationship help? You don’t have to name anybody, please don’t. But what would be a good example?
[Sue] Well, I can say, myself, when I was on the lender side, the customer side, I think very often, certainly I was in a position of saying, well, I can’t the technology just work this way? Why can’t they just fix it? Why does it take them so long to fix it? Why can’t it just work like this? And I think we even feel that way. We’re just consumers of technology broadly anyways, where we constantly feel that way. Like, why doesn’t it just do what I want it to do? And I think then having spent the last couple of decades more on the technology, the vendor side, from that position, it’s like, why don’t they listen to us when we tell them how to do it? Why don’t they actually execute like they said they were going to? Why are they trying to make it look like the last technology partner that they were with, that they left? that’s what they say is the only perfect technology is the one that you just came off of. Right. And so so I think there’s frustrations rampant on both sides and I’ve experienced it on both sides and you probably have as well as probably all of our listeners.
[David] Yeah. One of the things you talk about is the human element in mortgage technology. There’s technology and it’s a human element without question. What I think I hear you say, I’d like you to expound on that. It seems to be by far the human element, far more than the technology element. Expound on that.
[Sue] The mortgage industry is, as you certainly both know, as well as our listeners here, is this is a very people centric business. It’s what the mortgage industry really is based on. It’s humans moving into homes where their whole life happens, right? Where their joys and pains and marriage and divorce and babies and graduation, like their whole world happens inside of a home. So this is a very people-y business and we are, people serving people.
[David] I like that. people. That’s good.
[Sue] Yeah, it is. It is. Right. And I think, you know, sometimes I really pull up and remember that also all of us in this industry, well, we’re people too. We’re human people living human lives with human tendencies and weaknesses and brilliances and all the things. And I think sometimes, you know, I’ve always tried to when I’m in a bit on this situation, either on the lender side or the vendor side, and there’s a lot of frustration. I always try to remember when somebody’s maybe expressing their frustration and not the most positive, constructive way. You know, this is a real person that I don’t know what’s going on in their life. I mean, maybe they have some kind of terrible personal situation happening. I mean, who knows? And so I do think that, you know, as we look at kind of the lender vendor dynamic, I have seen wonders worked by really remembering, like moving quickly and working on a human level to connect with the other frustrated human and operating with some grace, with some humility, taking your licks when you need to, owning your part of the problem. the fighting to defend a point of view, maybe even when you’re right or hiding behind your keyboard or, you know, it can sometimes you win that they’re not going to break up the contract in the short run, but it ultimately costs you when you can’t make that human connection. And I’ve just seen it repeated over and over and over and over in this industry.
[Allen] That’s very, very interesting to say that. So on the vendor side, you get this passion, right? The people are very passionate about the product they’ve created. They spent nights, weekends, they’ve done everything they can to get it to work. And you’re that one customer that just didn’t fit right. And then on the lender side, you’re busy. You don’t have time for this. what would you suggest that a lender and a vendor can do together to get over thataspect of it? I have an opinion on it, but I’d rather hear your opinion. because I have a feeling you’re going to probably say the exact same thing.
[Sue] Well, I think there’s a lot of different things. mean, in terms of, you know, if we’re talking about kind of how to create a more human connection, I mean, I think it’s one of the big reasons that I believe so much in conferences. It’s very hard to get face to face when people’s companies are now remote, right? It used to be you could go to HQ, get together with everybody and kind of really handle things in a more face to face where you can read the body language and facial expressions and hear the person who’s making weird noises in the corner and you can tell they’re mad. It’s harder to do that and so it’s, as I said, one of the big reasons that I believe in going to conferences, getting, I don’t love the phrase belly to belly because it conjures up weird things, but face to face with people. Show up, be in person, know their pains and show that you not only care about what their pain points are, but you actually have solutions to help them solve.
[David] Yeah, that’s so good. Thank you. Yeah. And it really starts with relationship. What you’re talking about there, Sue is the relationship component of this. we are a relationship driven business. I mean, you could say that about every business to a certain degree, but certainly something as emotionally charged as doing a mortgage, for someone’s life is one of the most emotionally charged transactions at times. someone’s life. So when you’re talking about establishing a relationship, What tips would you have for the lender that’s listening to this that’s thinking about making a switch of their LOS or their CRM or something like that. And also the vendor that’s communicating with them. What are some things that you’d say, this is Sue Woodard’s counseling tips as you go into this for the relationship.
[Sue] My counseling tips. think some of the biggest things as people are either contemplating technology, a new technology, or I think maybe importantly right now, contemplating removing a technology or thinking about continuing this relationship. I think some of the really key things that vendors can do is really insisting on executive business reviews. We used to call them quarterly business reviews or QBRs, getting face-to-face in that way, or at least connecting even if it’s digitally.
[David] And this is after you talk about after the installation has been done
[Sue] I’m talking about, yeah, steady state. we can go back to, if you want to go back to kind of the buying process, because I have some thoughts on that as well. I think just, you know, again, my experience has been that it’s kind of a, we’ll get together when we can get together and all of a sudden a year and a half has gone by. And so I think, again, just like any relationship, I am a big believer in putting those dates on the calendar to get together at a regular cadence and for the lenders listening, Show up to those. We, again, in some of my experience, we changed the name from quarterly business reviews to executive business reviews because we want the executives there. It doesn’t help if the same people who are talking every day, day in, day out, you actually need decision makers to be there and actually understand.
[Allen] Well, Sue, that’s actually something interesting because what I’ve noticed a lot is the executives sometimes are involved in the beginning and then they kind of drift off and they seem to only get involved if there’s an issue or if a contract negotiations come up or there’s a conference. So are you almost suggesting that, if you’re an executive of a lender and you’re listening right now, you should be more involved in not only being a champion, but you should be involved in the ongoing reviews that you’re talking about. Make sure you know what goals have been met. That’s what you’re saying, right?
[Sue] 100%. and again, I understand the tech stacks are large and maybe you can’t be there all the time. It’s a challenge I would give to vendors to make sure that if you have executives who aren’t able to attend, have some kind of executive summary that’s going out regularly about what you’re doing, where their wins have been. I just think sometimes it gets very disconnected after the initial purchase was made. It’s, you know, to go back to your early question, David, very often when people are making a technology decision, they’re not bringing in all the internal stakeholders that they should along the way. Now, LOS, you mentioned, that’s a whole different ball of wax than many technologies because it’s a heart and lung transplant, right? That’s an enormous, enormous change. Yeah. But I think even with any technology, that’s being implemented or as it’s being considered,
[David] Yes. Yes. It’s a great way to put it.
[Sue] I just think that that’s a really key consideration is bringing in those right internal stakeholders. Very often I see companies talking to executives, yeah, this seems great, it’s gonna be awesome. It’s plopped into the hands of a technical or administrative team, marketing team, in some cases technical team, and they’re like, what is this? Why did we buy this? What are we doing? I already have a full-time job, now I have to do what for the next how many weeks? so it’s again, making sure that those expectations are set ahead of time, whether it’s LOS, POS, PPE, automated marketing, any number of the things that are out there. It’s setting those expectations. And, you know, probably one of the key things is understanding upfront. Why? Why are you buying this? Okay. And really crystallizing it. used it to challenge the sales team to capture that actually in our own CRMs at the technology company. I’d say you capture why are they buying? What’s the most important reason they’re buying? Because we got to hang on to that and keep pointing back to that in time. Just like you need to in a relationship. Why did we get married in the first place? I can’t stand you today. Well, here’s why. Because we have these sets of shared values and this is the why that we’re together. But I think very often it gets swept up in the romance of the sale and nobody remembers six months later, why do we even do this?
[David] you hit on something there that I want to go into. We agree on core values, but we’re in a dynamic, interesting industry. Sue, where core values are shifting because the core values that worked in the past, this is where the analogy to, being a marriage per se versus a married to the technology is different because business plans change the need to adjust what was working, isn’t working for many people now. So when that happens, how do you advise someone to work through that?
[Sue] Well, again, this is where I think the regular communication points are so critical at an executive level because you just can’t know if you don’t ask. And it’s very easy that again, if the right conversations aren’t happening, you’ve got admins talking to admins, but there’s big business shifts happening. And suddenly people are leaving a technology and they may not even know, hey, we actually can help you with this new business strategy that you have, but if the technology vendor isn’t privy to what this new strategy is and isn’t able to, relay how they can help in that situation. So again, it’s why I’m such a huge advocate of making sure that the right conversations are happening with the right people on a very regular basis, because to your point, you know, the targets move a lot, just like in real life.
[David] Let me just interject this real fast, Allen, Listeners, we’re going to put a link to the article that both Allen and I read. Actually, Allen read it. He forwarded it to me. says, Lykken, you got to read this. It’s really good. And so we both read it. And so we’re going put a link into that. And listeners, several times we are going to reference that article. Everything we’re talking about is pretty much in that article, but it’s we’re getting a fresh tech. My attitude on doing podcasts is I don’t need to do a podcast and report the article. Go read the article. We’re talking about what we pulled out of that. And so, what we’re hoping is this will motivate you to go read that article. It’s really, really, really well written on that.
[Allen] And actually, David, it’s timely, right? We’re at the beginning of the new year on the podcast today. We talked about you’ve done everything you can. You’ve reshuffled the deck chairs, which is unfortunate in a lot of cases. But the reality is it’s time to figure out what you’re going to do for the rest of the year, right? Put that strategy to action, figure out, you know, do you have the right features turned on? And I’m going to get to that in a second. But what’s really interesting is, you know, we used to call it a road show. I’m curious what you think of this, Sue. We would get a couple of us folks and we would start in New Jersey and head all the way to California and back and we would go visit our customers and you know what we found out? We found out customers were not happy when they didn’t tell us, we found out that features did or didn’t work, we found out that people wanted to buy more product from us that we didn’t realize and so that face to face that you’re talking about, that’s where I’m getting at as a vendor if you’re listening I think what Sue’s saying I’m gonna let you say it but I’m gonna kind of feed you with the words is get out there, go see people. If you can’t make it to a conference, do one big trip, grab a car and drive across country, but go see your customers. And you know what happens in the end after that is that you create a relationship. So if you have an issue and you sit down with the CEO of a lender and they have a problem, they’re going to call you now. They’re not going to ask someone to call support. They’re going to reach out to you directly because you shook their hand. You were the one that was face to face. That’s the relationship. I know we’re to get to partner and vendor mindsets in a little bit, but I kind of jumped in. I didn’t mean to, but I just wanted to see if you agreed with that Sue and that’s kind what you would suggest as well.
[Sue] Yes, 100%, 100%. I mean, it’s harder now, like I said, because you don’t always have everybody consolidated at HQ, but you can make plans, whether it is, get on the road. I mean, I’m a huge, huge, huge believer in that because you just, solve things in different ways. Again, like we’re talking about, you see the body language, you get the right people in the room, hopefully you go break bread together and you have different level of conversation, but you are spot on, the things that come up in those conversations when you’re physically with each other is just it’s unlike any other experience. And again, I just think this is a business that is there’s a lot of human connection in this business. And I’m huge believer in technology. Somebody heard me speak recently and they said, wow, you know, this human stuff flies in the face of all the technology. like, no, no, no, it all goes together. I mean, I love technology. Technology is there to support the human. But when we’re talking about these relationships between lender and vendor. The human element cannot be overstated enough. And I love the roadshow tactic. Been on many roadshows. Some more fun than others.
[Allen] I’ve got a story about an old CEO. He and I went up on a on a nude beach in California by mistake. So anyways, turns out there’s one in San Diego, but we got we quickly left. But anyways, you know, if anyone’s ever read your LinkedIn or been friends with you, your comment of being belly to belly.
[Sue] That one’s never happened to me, bro.
[Allen] For you, it’s almost, you know, aisle 12C, A and B next to each other because your airplane posts for the last couple of years are absolutely hysterical and you run into the same travel problems that everyone runs into. Yes, indeed. Indeed. I do have a series of public service announcements for frequent travelers. You’ll certainly appreciate it. And actually, when I tease about belly to belly, I love, one of the things that I think there’s not enough of in some of these relationships is really just showing your customer some love, and I have always talked about that in my career. And so I’m a big hugger. I always tell people, if you’re a hugger, just you better come at me with your hands like this. Otherwise, you know, you’re going to get probably get a hug.
[David] Hugs are the best. I mean, they really are. And yes.
[Allen] David and Sue, how often does somebody say to you, you got to go watch this online and you don’t know what platform it’s on, right? You got to search everywhere for it. You’re trying to figure out you Google it. It’s on eight platforms to you have to pay to rent it three or subscribe to one. You’re not right. Do you guys have run into that problem all the time?
[David] We solved that by being on every platform known to man. So I think I’m on every platform now at this point, on that, but I think that really opens up a great question. Sue, are you finding some platforms for social media? This kind of departure off the media topic that are more effective for you. I lean towards LinkedIn. What do you find yourself leaning towards?
[Allen] Yeah, there you go.
[Sue] You know, I am almost strictly B2B. so I have chosen LinkedIn as really my place to be because I actually I got kicked off of Facebook. Yeah, well, just for a day, but it made me so mad that I just was like, maybe I was having this fun conversation with Ginger Bell and she was describing like, you know, da da da, whatever. I said, that sounds so fun. I might come kidnap you. And the word kidnap got me booted off of Facebook for a couple of days. And I was sent text that I’m like, No, my daughter loves to laugh at me because I’m a lurker on Twitter. I just lurk around and read things and then I’m active on LinkedIn and I have consciously decided that’s where, at least for this time in my life, that’s where it ends for me.
[David] Yeah, that’s really good. I agree with you a hundred percent. When you look at the unique challenges of mortgage relationships, you talk about this in your article. What are you seeing that is unique? Because we talked about this is like every other relationship, but there are unique aspects. What are the ones that are unique that you draw out that article and that you would think is important to have as a walk away from this?
[Sue] I think, some of the uniquenesses are certainly that it’s not an equal relationship, right? I mean, someone is the client and somebody is the partner vendor providing to that client. And again, I know, and I’m a strong believer in talking about that it is a partnership. Both people have to do their part, but it’s not equal when somebody’s paying money to somebody else. Right. And so I think there’s just certain nuance there. And so I think, you know, some of the things that I think about are
[David] Good point.
[Sue] Lenders sometimes need to be honest about, know, have you really done your part? Have you really looked at the best practices? Are you trying to, wedge this technology into like a way that you want it, to work that maybe is outdated? And if you actually would pull up a little bit and listen to your technology provider who’s got the benefit of working across a lot of different companies and they know actually what works really well and having the ability to be a little flexible there. think vendors very often they forget about the fact that lenders have 18 trillion things that they’re thinking about on any given day. Any technology company out there, you said it earlier, David, this is like what they dreamed of. They laid awake at night. like, you know, invested their life savings into this is the biggest deal in the world to them, right? A lender, you’re a blip in the screen, right? of all the different worries and concerns and you know, people and fundings and pipelines and hedging and there’s a world of problems out there. And so sometimes I think vendors need to have the awareness that it’s not an equal relationship. They’re not thinking about you as much as as much as yes, yes. Yes, yes, exactly. Just not that into you. But again, it’s a not level relationship. But I would say it is because of that.
[David] As much as you would like to think they were, they’re not.
[Allen] only when the bill comes, but they’re not thinking about you in a good way.
[Sue] The onus really is on the vendor partner to establish some of these things. I don’t think the onus is on the lender to be like, hey, we need to set up regular touch points and hey, I need to do that onus is on the vendor to set up those touch points. But there is a responsibility on the part of the lender that you got to show up. You got to do your part. And we haven’t even talked about ROI, which is an interesting, interesting thing on this particular topic as well.
[David] Well, let’s go there for a minute. Let’s go for there for a bit. Talk about ROI.
[Allen] Yeah, let’s talk about
[Sue] I tink people need to be fair about ROI because I think very often it’s the biggest thing that we hear from people in the industry right now, right? Everybody’s looking at their tech stack and saying, what’s the ROI? What’s the ROI? And ROI can be measured in a lot of different ways. And it’s not just what dollars is this bringing or how many more fundings is this bringing in? in fact, if that were the case, every technology, every technology that’s purchased at the beginning of 2020, People would be like, look what I did to your volume. Amazing. Aren’t you so glad that you purchased this technology? Right? Yes. And it doesn’t have anything to do with it.In fact, maybe they were so busy that they didn’t even have time to use your technology, but it makes truly trying to like relate ROI in the mortgage industry very difficult because it’s not so easy as like you do this and this happens because we’ve got interest rates and the market moving in the background. So there are actually a lot of different ways that ROI can be defined. Maybe it’s table stakes for your originators, because this is something that they need in order to operate and they have an expectation that’s going to be there for them to use as a selling tool. Maybe it’s something that helps you prevent compliance risk, right? there can be all kinds of different things. It can be cost cutting, can be revenue generating, it can be risk prevention, it can be sales generating, so many different things. so…
[Allen] absolutely.
[Sue] There is an onus on the vendor though to make sure you have a story down, right? And there’s an onus on the lender to understand it’s not going to be as because of the market doing this in the background. It’s not going to be as clear cut as you’d probably like it to be. But again, it’s kind of going back to what is the purpose? What’s the main reason? Why did we invest in this technology? Is it accomplishing that? And they’ve got to be aligned on what it is that they’re going to be able to accomplish for ROI.
[Allen] Well, Do you feel like the industry, talk about this often, everybody’s award winning, best at breed, everybody’s press release is the first to market. And so I think we’re setting up, and I’ve been on that side of the fence, I think we’re setting up lenders to think that they’re getting the absolute best, perfect, there’s never gonna be a bug, it’s worked for everybody’s solution and that ROI can’t be seen, because everybody thinks it should be perfect.
[Sue] Yeah, I think that’s so true. I would say honestly, look no further than everything that we deal with every day in our lives, just as humans, we’re all consumers of all of this different technology out in the world and one of it is flawless, right? We have issues ourselves all the time. So I think that’s a fair and balanced way to look at it.
[David] Now I want to go to the future because we’re hearing AI AI this we’ve got AI embedded in our system. So whether whatever it’s I want to get Sue Woodard’s perspective on where’s the future mortgage tech partnerships. Mortgage tech and the partnership. Yeah.
[Sue] Yeah, well, is this really me or is this an avatar of me that’s been trained to talk like me? I mean, I don’t know. So I will tell you that and I’m very, very, very far from an AI expert and have kind of chosen to I’m not going to try to become one. Right. I need to have a great understanding of it. But I have seen some things that over the past six months that have pretty much, I mean, honestly have blown me away in terms of I would say the biggest game changers I’ve seen are voice technology. Avatar technology married to proactive data intelligence is like mind blowing.
[David] Right? But expound on the proactive data challenge. I want to make sure our listeners understand what you’re saying.
[Sue] my gosh. Well, I think we’ve had in the industry for a while, we’ve had what I would call reactive data intelligence. So trigger leads, things like that. And so, you know, somebody’s moved, somebody’s listed their house, somebody’s got their credit pulled. You’re being reactive to something going on. The industry, it has come a long ways towards starting to be more proactive and even predictive, right? Being able to take this mass of data. I mean, We think about it, you go on Amazon, we’d like talk for a little while. I go on Amazon, I go on Twitter, I go on anything. And all of sudden it knows the things and it’s like, Sue, you probably like this pair of shoes. I’m like, dang, I do like that pair of shoes, right? You know, so I think we should with all of the data, right? That we have out there as for on consumers, we’re finally getting to the point where I am seeing some things that are exciting to me about predictive data intelligence, right? about things that help us predict life events or when a life event happens, it’s a good predictor that they’re probably going to need to do something with their mortgage that married with, like I said, the voice AI and the avatars are crazy good, crazy good. And, oh, I mean, yeah, I mean, it’s The video ones freak me out. mean, those are the ones where, and again, just to quickly explain it for everybody listening, where, you know, it’s me, the software, you talk into it, like, da-da-da-da, do all the stuff. Well, after that, you can just feed scripts into it, and it looks like me giving the script, or the voice AI is unreal, some of the things I’ve heard. I mean, talking to the person in such a, like nothing I’ve ever heard before it literally in the last six months where it sounds literally like you’re talking to a person and what they’re doing. In most cases, that’s right, because and they’re available 24/7. They never call in sick. They don’t have any people management issues. Yeah. And so I do think that’s going to be a big, big, big game changer. Now, I think the key is, you know, the data also all shows us, though, again, the human transaction with a lot of emotion and you said it earlier, David or maybe it was you, Allen. it’s like there’s so much emotion in a home purchase. I mean, there just is because your family moving, you know. And so this is a life event for someone with a lot of emotion. There is almost always a time when even experienced people I’m going through like we just sold our home. David, you know the story where moving or building another property. You better believe there is as much as I know about all of this stuff and as many mortgages I’ve done. There’s a time where I want to reach out my hand and I need that human being there to answer some questions for me, tell me some things.
[David] Yep. And what’s really as good as the technology is getting, I was talking to a psychologist who says we have a unique as humans, a unique ability to recognize when it’s technology and when it’s not, says, we are getting better and better at the technology side. And it was answering a question about will technology take over the business. It will enable, but it just can not take over. That’s a statement I should have asked him as a question. Your thoughts on that
[Allen] I’ve always called it David pulling the rip cord. Everybody needs, you get lost in the tech. It’s cool to start, but it can’t last the whole entire, the whole relationship can’t be tech driven.
[David] yeah. And I think this is where this is the shift that needs to take place is because we need to become, we got to recognize our human abilities and get comfortable with who you are. It’s your frequency, it’s your voice, it’s who you are, that uniqueness, your iris, your fingerprint. No one else has it. And so it is really important to develop that skillset and really settle in on that. is, yeah. Also, I could talk to you forever and this Allen, could tell you just so much fun. where are you speaking next?
[Sue] Next, let me think. I’m attending IMB coming up in Austin, Texas. Yep, I’ll be there right there in Austin, speaking at, got all kinds of speaking engagements coming up, Dart Bank, and I’ll be speaking at ICE in March and all kinds of fun things happening. Yeah.
[David] good, you’ll be here in Austin. How good, we’ll see you there, is not surprising. The price of a mission is worth it just to hear Sue speak. And I mean that sincerely. The speech you gave the last two times at Total Expert, it’s worth going to Total Expert just to hear you. And they put on probably in my opinion, one of the best conferences in the industry. Really, Joe and the team, they’re doing a phenomenal job. And, then you and Joe get up on stage. I mean, you do it individually, but my gosh, that was so rocky. bandcamp, go ask Sue about bandcamp, how you take the movie bandcamp and bring it to the stage and talk about mortgage technology. It was brilliantly done. I loved it. That was, that was a real fun one.
[Sue] That’s right. It was fun. It was fun.
[Allen] Well, I have a couple of questions for you if you still have a few minutes with us. Good, good. The first one is a little off topic. What have you seen recently on Netflix or streaming?
[Sue] I do. Yeah. Landman.
[Allen] Is that good?
[Sue] yeah, it’s really good. It’s a spin-off of it’s Billy Bob Thornton. It’s a spin-off. Well, it’s not really a spin-off, but it’s by the Tyler Sheridan. And so it’s, he’s ridiculously good, but it’s not a family. It’s not a family show, not a family show. So fair warning.
[Allen] that’s right. He’s great. Yes. Yes, I need to see that. it was a total setup. thought you were going to say carry on with Jason Bateman because the mortgage industry kind of feels like that sometimes. And I figured we would, yeah, we could tie that directly into the partner versus vendor mindset and how many lenders are, you know, yeah, how many lenders are holding vendors hostage or vice versa. So curious of your thoughts on that.
[Sue] It surely does. Right on. Yeah, have to put it on my list. Okay, I’ll have to put that one on my list for sure.
[David] Well, it’s so good to have you here, Sue. Thank you so much for joining us. it’s just been awesome to have you back on the podcast. We want to interview you again. Keep us posted on where you’re speaking. We’ll share it with our audience. Allen, thank you for joining us. A man of technology sitting in his new technology enabled car, a Tesla brand new folks. He’s doing the interview from his new Tesla. So cool. Doesn’t get better than that. So.
[Sue] I will.
[Allen] You know, thank you, David. Thank you. Thank you, Sue, for being here. Appreciate it.
[David] Both of you want to thank you both so much.
[Sue] All right, thanks. Appreciate you both.
[David] Thank you guys.
[Sue] Thanks, everybody. Take care.
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Along with her signature passion for people, Sue Woodard brings over thirty years of financial services and mortgage industry experience, strategic vision and leadership to her role as Senior Advisor / Consultant with the STRATMOR Group, and Mortgage Industry / FinTech Evangelist At Large!
Sue started her career at the ground level in financial services, became a top producing originator, then leveraged her knowledge to become a highly acclaimed industry speaker, subject matter expert and technology executive. Having held many executive and leadership positions throughout her career, Sue’s consulting specialties are in customer experience, operationalizing excellence in the customer and employee journey, content strategy, and developing personal brand and presence via speaking, media and social media.
In addition to having hosted a successful financial radio program and making guest appearances on CNBC, Sue has been awarded numerous industry honors, including the NMP Most Powerful Women in Mortgage Banking, the MPA HOT 100 list, the Housing Wire Vanguard Award, and the NMP Most Innovative Award.
She also serves on the board of HOPE4Youth, a non-profit working to end youth homelessness, as well as on the board of Axis Lending Academy, a non-profit created to lift individuals who have not been given a traditional career path and create employment opportunities for them within the mortgage industry.
As a bit of a thrill seeker, she has sky-dived over Vegas, fire walked on hot coals, Harleyed down Route 66, run a Ragnar through the desert and cage dived with great white sharks – but claims nothing has been more exciting than raising her millennial daughter.