4-12-2021 How Are You Positioning Leadership In Your Organization In 2021? With Kevin Crichton

In our new series on “Leadership” we have invited Kevin Crichton to join the podcast in order to discuss his experience as one of the leaders in the mortgage industry! More about Kevin Crichton......... Kevin Crichton, President and COO at EMM Loans LLC Entrepreneurial leader with a solid corporate structure, Mr. Crichton operates business within a family-oriented environment. He joined EMM in 2012 and aggressively grew the company to its present position as a well-respected, multibillion-dollar nationwide lender serving over 50,000 happy customers since the company’s inception. Read more here:....

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How Are You Positioning Leadership In Your Organization In 2021? With Kevin Crichton

We got a good audience and that's probably because we got an exciting Hot Topic in this episode. We have Kevin Crichton coming in. He's an entrepreneurial leader who operates the business within a family-owned environment. He joined EMM in 2012. He's done a great job. He is the President and CEO. There is a lot of tremendous information. I met Kevin through Les Parker. Les Parker again is one of the guys I go to for critical thought. What's going on? What do you see happening? He kept talking about Kevin Crichton. “We got to get Kevin on that program.” My good friend, longstanding, an old friend that's still around, Tim Murphy reached out and said, “I got this guy that I'm working with. Would you like to have Kevin Crichton?” I said, “Yes. Tim, can you make that happen?” Tim, thank you so much. If anyone knows National Mortgage News, you will remember the name Tim Murphy. It's so good to see him active in the marketplace. I appreciate my conversations with him also. We have a number of others affiliated with him. It’s so good to have everyone here. Stay tuned to the Hot Topic Segment. We’re proud to be a part of the Industry Syndicate. Check out IndustrySyndicate.com and all of the podcasts out there. A business update from Finastra. Please join Finastra’s Inaugural Data Points Business Update on April 14th, 2021. It's from 1:30 PM to 2:30 PM Eastern Time. Data Points is a quarterly business update to keep you informed on what's happening at Finastra but also what's happening in a broader sense of the word in the FinTech world. Again, we are so grateful to have Finastra as one of the anchor key sponsors, but you will want to find out what they're doing. Again, Finastra is the third largest FinTech company in the world so we do want to pay attention to what they're saying because they have a good amount of information they bring. We also want to say thank you to the Mortgage Bankers Association of America. I love what my friend Tony had to say on the January 4th show, socioeconomic update. Also, what Bob Broeksmit and the team are doing for their town hall meeting. They are keeping us informed of all that's going on. Also, I want to say a special thank you to Lenders One and The Mortgage Collaborative. We're a part of both of these wonderful co-ops. I love The MBA and I encourage you, number one, to be a member of The MBA. However, if you want to get up close and personal with your peers, find out what's going on, peer data analysis, and with the vendors as well, which we're one of them, you can join Lenders One or The Mortgage Collaborative. Also, The Community Mortgage Lenders of America does a great job of helping independent mortgage bankers have their voices heard. They work nicely with The MBA. I like how the teamwork is. We need a lot of teamwork. Also, Indecomm. It’s a technology firm and is a sponsor that provides mortgage expertise in the way of automation, outsourcing, and compliance to the mortgage industry. They do a great job. Go read the blog we did with Linda Bomar. I have to get her back on as they have some more updates on what going on. Thank you for your sponsorship. Also, Insellerate. Josh Friend does a great job. It’s leading-edge technology that brings their mortgage expertise to the pre-designed campaigns that come together through their CRM and through their other tools and technology. It is so much more than the CRM. Check out the show. It’s still getting downloaded. On August 17th, 2020, we had Josh Friend on the show. I've referred a lot of business and everyone I refer to him, there's Band-Aid. What a wealth of knowledge in that guy. I am also thrilled to have Knowledge Coop, Mobility MMI or Mortgage Market Intelligence, as well as Modex as sponsors. These organizations do a great job of supporting the industry. I thank them all for their sponsorship. Also, finally, Alice, Allen, and Matt for their contribution to each and every week. Let’s go to our Hot Topic Segment. It is very exciting to have as our guest, Kevin Crichton. We're going to talk a little bit about leadership. He is a leader in the industry, a thought leader, for sure. Les Parker's a good friend. He's one of the people who says, “Kevin has got it together. He's one of the critical thinkers.” It's not surprising that Bob Broeksmit with the MBA reached out to him and asked him for his thoughts on things. I am very excited to have him here. He has been the President and CEO of EMM Mortgage since 2012. He is a great individual with a lot of great thought. Kevin, it’s good to have you here. Let’s get a chance to meet you. How long have you been in the industry and how did you get into the industry? You got a great show. You had a lot of great comments from some of the folks you had on there and I'm very excited to be part of that. I fell into the business, as many of us probably said back in the '80s. I was an accountant. I was working for a large Fortune 500 company in New York City as a controller, living in the Philly area. I was traveling a bunch and it was boring. At 3:00 in the afternoon, my head would hit the desk and I didn't like what I was doing so I started literally looking at the paper. You had to look for that one ad. You have to look for who was hiring. I found an ad from Travelers Mortgage at the time which had bought a mortgage company and had gone public. The company was Brokers Mortgage Services. It went public. Travelers scooped them up with a deal. That was a five-year earned out, to be specific, and they were expanding. They were the number 1 and number 2-ish private label security at the time along with Citibank. They needed to expand their finances and their accounting aspects. I got hired there. There were many interviews and pressing to run the accounting and finance department for Travelers Mortgage. That was the beginning of my career back in '86. A few years later, GE Capital purchased Travelers Mortgage which I stayed on for a while. During that time and even leading up to that, I got the opportunity to train under Jack Welch. We had a partnership at Travelers with GE. We spent a lot of time up in Crotonville which is where GE did corporate training. I worked for Travelers, but I got a lot of GE Capital experience during those years. I worked for them for a short duration. At that time, as a very young guy, 29 years old, I was like, “I don't want to work in these big companies. Let me go try something else.” I got recruited to help run and take a company public. From there, my career took off. I went from being a lonely accountant to CFO or treasurer, running secondary and running back off office. I started to gain experience servicing over the next few years. I had a couple of different here and there. Ultimately, ending up years later as I ran and owned a few businesses, I saw the mountaintop. I saw the valley at the same time. My experience has been up and down relative to the size of companies. Before this company, before EMM Loans, I was a Senior Executive at Bank of America which was Countrywide prior. Again, I got recruited out there to help out the '07 market when everything was blowing up. They were on nothing else but lost mitigation, which is a thankless job but probably the focus of everyone's attention back then. I started at Countrywide back in 2007 sitting right next to Angelo Mozilo and a few other unnamed executives who were on the hot seat at that time. Things were blown up pretty well. I worked it. We did what we could to mitigate. Mitigation is not the elimination of loss. It's mitigating your losses and we did a good job of doing that, but the market continued to sink over time period. It was a thankless process, but ultimately, I ran products and pricing for the bank. At some point, you talk about my football background. I played football my entire life until I was an adult and coached since that time. My kids have played football. I coach them. I've been involved as the president of a football parents club at colleges for my kids. That was great. My football background was behind me, but the sport gave me a lot of experience. Without that sport, I wouldn't be here. It gave me discipline. It gave me the focus. It taught me how to work hard. Long stories short, it's part of my background. My work ethic from the football aspect and growing up, having a job that was the discipline I learned. I wasn't always the smartest or the sharpest bulb in the pack but it was hard to work me. My work ethic, the time I would spend at the office when he had to be in the office. I love the business we're in. I’ve learned it up and down and sideways. I learned something every day. When I stop learning, it will probably be the time when I don't need to be in this industry any longer. Every day that goes by, I don't ever learn on a daily basis but that's the key. It keeps you excited. It keeps you interested. It keeps you going and I don't want to be a know-it-all. There's too much in the world and too much in this business to learn on a daily basis. [bctt tweet="There's too much in the world, too much in this business, to learn on a daily basis. That's the key. It keeps you excited. It keeps you interested. It keeps you going. You don't want to be a know-it-all." username=""] I love the fact you highlight the point that you're always learning which means you're a constant student in the industry which is the reason why Les enjoys talking to you in critical thought. You're knowledgeable of the secondary market. You're using MBS Live on the mobile app and you also use it on the screen. Do you have a good summation of what convexity risk is for our readers who don’t know that term? I'm probably going to be more layman about it than anyone else. Sometimes we overbake the aspects of convexity risk. It's there. It exists. It's never going to go away. Sometimes, it’s greater than others. The idea that you're heading, if you're doing it straight head, you bring in a loan. You are locking every day. You run it off of the fallout model. Some people run off with some other models, but we do a basic fallout model. The problem with hedging in that respect is that you can never be ahead of it. You're always reacting to the market. Again, if the market's going in one direction always, it’s pretty easy to hedge because you stay ahead for you to go bearish or to go bullish. You're either putting more trades on to cover your hedge or you're pulling it out and going along. What we do is cover some of that convexity risk or that differential that it can't cover. That anticipation of the market moving one way or the other with some optional coverage is also risky because it used to be you could do a mortgage-backed optional coverage. Now, it's got to be in the treasury side, futures, options, or whatever it may be. You do get some coverage but it's an inefficient hedge. I don't pretend to be the smartest guy in the room relative to the hedging side. If that's your one job, then that's great. The analytical nature of it is you can do this until the cows come home. What we like to do is be more precise around predicting our full through and fallout and be simple about it. In this business, simplicity is the best. The more complex you get about it, the more risk you take on, and the more potential for extraordinary or often mistakes and issues that cost you. It's a neutral process. It's not a perfect process. As we note now, we have mortgage-backed securities, but if you're looking at additional optional coverage but your choice is on the treasury side, they don't always parallel and line up with the mortgage piece. It's still an inefficient hedge, but in some instances, it's a necessary hedge.

  We have Matt here. Matt, do you have any questions on that topic especially as he's a good customer of yours? Any questions you have for Kevin? It does not question so much as I just want to echo the sentiment of it being easy to get bogged down in thinking and talking about the convexity-related issues when it's just it is what it is. From what I understand about the secondary, they have a certain ratio that they want to hit where a certain percentage is covered. It's not about gaming the system or trying to make money on market movements as much as it’s just trying to stay balanced, protected, and “optimal.” You guys could probably talk more about that term than me since I don't have a secondary background. What we try to do here, if we can on a competitive basis is built in some assumed hedge costs. They're always assumed. It's very difficult to pinpoint your hedge cost. If you leave yourself a little leeway, you're up or down for that matter. You can bake it in some way to the margin that you've shown to the consumer. Again, talk about a material number. You're far better to do that and build a little fluff than you are to try to hedge the convexity and the what-ifs because no one knows, especially in this market. This is not been a traditional market, at least, for the last year. It's not necessarily now either. You were talking about rates spiking tremendously, but probably needed to because they were abnormally too low in my opinion. We're in the range. We're probably still short for where we need to be with inflation sitting there at three if that's really the number. We're still too far below on the tenure if you’re just going to use the tenure. There's nothing wrong with high rates. Higher rates are an indication that the economy is strong or there is inflation, which is one or the same. When the consumers are fully employed and they have excess money and savings in good condition, there's nothing wrong with seeing in 3s, 4s, and 5s in mortgages. You want to be in a purchase market predominantly. Refi market is very hard to manage. It’s almost impossible to manage. When you see higher rates, you do see the refi dropout but you also see the rates are going up for a reason. The economy is doing well. People are buying homes. People are enjoying their lives and that's a good healthy market. There's nothing wrong with it. We've gotten spoiled because when equities get racked, they may be short-covering rallies on the treasury side and on the mortgage side but that's not a long-term play. That's a short-time play. In terms of home values and refi markets, there's some refi demand to be had there as well. It doesn't seem like refi demand is dropping off nearly as fast as it normally does given the rate spike we've had. I think it's also because of the tremendous uptick in the equity portion of people's homes. They receive tremendous value in their home. People are realizing that they bought it a year ago and it's up $100,000. What do you want to do with Johnny’s tuition? We could borrow money from the house. What do you want to do with the pool? It needs to be fixed. Let's go borrow more from the house. Those cash-out scenarios more so the rate and return probably because the equity value is going to stay for quite a while until we get some type of leveling off or even a decline in the values of homes and purchases. If you can find a place to buy, purchase is still strong. One thing that's affecting the market, and they'll have a negative impact for the remainder of the year is the fact that in a normalized market, you have a level of foreclosures. You have a level of homes that come on the market relative to people who can't afford it. They lost their jobs in this instance and are being foreclosed or being worked on with their service, and they put the house on the market. We have these forbearances and we have a moratorium now on foreclosure. These homes that should have come on the market by now are not going to come on the market sometime next year even if that way. The inventory definitely crunch for a lot of reasons. That's one of them. The fact that there is a lot of free money out there, that's what it is. You borrow money with 2% somewhat on a tax-effective yield, you are borrowing it on 1.5% depending thing on your tax bracket. Why would you borrow as much as you can? Why wouldn't you buy the house? That's what we're seeing in the market right now. It’s a different bubble than we saw back in ’06, ’07, and ‘08 for different reasons and healthier reasons. I'm not expecting any blow-up like we saw back then back then. Credit was too free and easy back then. Now, it's not the case. '21 is a good year. 2022 could be a good year. It depends on inflation and what's going on. A great topic and inventory in housing especially with some of the latest housing numbers. There's such pent-up demand. 2.4 million homes potentially could come flooding into the market at some point in time. There's so much demand for that. I don't think we have a housing bubble. I want to get your perspective on the IPO market with mortgage lenders. Is this something that if you had a company of a certain size you would consider doing or do you think this is not a wise move? Your thoughts on the IPOs. It's different for each company. Every company has a different need for capital. The fact that the market opened up allowed the well-run larger companies that are in need. These weren’t deals. These were ownership that was cashing out and walking away. These are necessities. These are IPOs that were done to feed the animal and to feed the machine that is cranking and acquiring servicing. Running a business takes a lot of capital, especially with some of the size of the Quickens of the world and the rest that has gone public. They had a need to go public or raise money on a private basis which was the amount of money they needed especially with some of the forbearance stuff and what's been going on in the past year, they needed this capital. A lot of companies are going to be crunched for capital. A few years back, it was a hot topic. As the markets opened up, the equity market was there. The SPAC market opened up. I'm not going to comment good or bad on that. These are necessities. You don't go public just for the sake of the public. It’s a bad move. For the investor who wants to invest in your company and you as a management team are cashing out or walking away, that's a bad public offer. These were public offerings for the necessity. At the same time, they had a proven track record of how to put their capital to use. There warranted and it's probably long overdue with some of these companies. It changes the way you manage your business, but I am interested. Is this a trend that you anticipate seeing? Is there a crossover point where someone gets to a certain size and they need to do that? What are your thoughts, Kevin? Again, there are all kinds of capital available in the market. I personally wouldn't like the public market because there are too many restrictions on running your business like the reporting and the necessity to worry about what you're making and the stock price to me is a distraction from running the business the way you should be running it. Again, these are very large companies with dynamic earnings and size. They need it. They did it for the right reason in my opinion. I don't know all the details. I've read a few things. I've talked to a few people in the market. They did it out of necessity. I don't know if it would have happened if we didn't have the pandemic. The pandemic, the amount of record volume levels in 2020, and the demands on capital because of forbearance and foreclosure processing took a toll on a lot of these companies as far as their capital needs. The public market is a beautiful thing for them. It was the right thing to do. Most of them kept most of the ownership off to the side and they didn't sell the entire company to the marketplace. Some that wanted to go public couldn't so they linked up with other partners to do what they needed to do on a temporary basis, for example, AmeriHome and some others. The larger players needed the capital and they hit the right market to do it. You'll see those companies act and probably do things differently because they are in the public eye versus being not in the public eye previous to this. They're going to have to make some changes in that respect, but the other players that went public needed it and they hit the market the right time. Don't get me wrong. Quicken and some of the brilliant people over there, I have personal friends. There are a lot of them, but at the same time, they're not like Bank of America, Citi, or Chase where they have multiple lines of business and there's some diversification. Make no mistake about it. Mortgage entities are heavily based on the interest rate environment and what happens with purchasing of homes. They service loans, they do some other stuff, but the premiums they get paid in the market are subparts of a bank and some other financial institutions. I want to get over to talk about the various origination channels. UWM is one of the largest wholesalers. We're seeing others quickly coming to it like Alice’s company, the Union Home. It opened up on a very conservative and very smart way to do it. I want to get your thoughts on that. I always believe in the TPO market. At Travelers, we were in wholesale. It's one of the better channels in our marketplace. If the broker has a certain mindset and a certain way to service their local markets that some of the larger companies can't do without finding some folks and throwing a branch in that location, the brokers do a phenomenal job in their local markets. A broker tries to expand beyond local markets before gets a little dicey because they don't have the people, the wherewithal, and the systems to do so and that's okay. However, they serve a phenomenal purpose in the industry relative to servicing the customers in the local markets, and I've always thought that. Even when people were bailing out and TPO went down to 6% of the production in our industry, I was still staying the course doing TPO. I believe in it. I worked for one of the largest companies in the TPO market when I was with Countrywide, but besides that, the whole rhetoric when things blew up in the market of '07 and '12 and the brokers being the cause, was wrong. It was a lot of people not knowing what they were talking about. It was the lenders who were wrong. It wasn’t the brokers who were wrong. Brokers don't produce fraud. They get involved with loans here and there, but the broker community got a bad rap back then. The broker community is showing what they're all about and it's up to us to work with the right brokers and the right relationships. For my company to some other companies like UHM and some others, we all do that. it's a great business. It's a controllable business and you can buy what you want to buy more so than retail.

  In retail, you have to make your loan officers happy. You have to keep people in place. You have a realtor relationship. If you botched your relationship or botched 1 or 2, you can lose your whole retail originations offices if things aren’t right. On the broker side, you lose a broker. It’s not that we want to. We pay a lot of attention to our partners but it's not the end of the world. It's something you can recover from. It's always been to me a more magical business. Whether it be table funding TPO brokers or whether it be correspondent business, whether it be delegated or non-delegated, the world is a channel and I've been in it since I was a 23-year-old kid. Let's get over to Alice. Do you have any questions for our guest? I was running through some notes here, Dave, and I think we haven’t talked about technology yet. What technology is EMM going to be investing in going forward? There are so many different ways for companies to go. I'd love to see where you think the best focus is. We're doing a lot of different things. We have invested and made the commitment to what I'll call bot technology. We are working with some companies to automate. If you can study what one of our folks does, it's pick a job. Pick a closer or pick an underwriter or processor. You can watch what they do during the day, the buttons they push, and the things they do. You can pretty much replicate a lot of that through the robotic environment. It's learning and going back through whatever body does, and then developing and training the automation and the computers to replace certain aspects with what the staff is doing. This is not to replace our people. This is the make them more efficient so we can grow. Every time another big wave of production comes in, we have to be out there killing ourselves to hire people. This allows us to help our people in the trenches produce more business without overburdening them. There was a lot of burnout last year because we didn't have these robotics in place, but we went out and made a commitment money-wise to engage the third party to help us develop these things and we're well into it. Things like automating a CD where the closing department doesn't need to push it. The robot will do it. Automating the disclosure process so that I don't have a bunch of people reviewing every doc and sending it out. Robotics can do that. Helping a processor to do certain aspects of their job so that they can now carry a pipeline of 40 loans instead of 20 loans. Things like that are all being done now. The single most important thing that we can do is the back end relative to delivering the product to the consumer where you're getting into remote closing and things like that. That's great. I don't think it's something that’s going to be as mission-critical as what I mentioned because in your operational process, before you get to the backend, you have to fix the front end. We're approaching the front end first so that when the consumer comes to us, they have a great experience all the way through. It gets done more expediently. It gets done with fewer errors because the robots are more accurate. When you get to the end game, to deliver a good product of closing to be electronic in some means is important. I don't think the entire process is necessary now because a lot of customers still want to touch and feel the documents and be there in front of somebody. Even if you had a completely automated closing process, for example, eNotes and all of that stuff, we've told our customers and a lot of them don't necessarily want to do that. Maybe that'll change over time. What they do want is expediency in the process. They want less paperwork. They want the timeframe to be lessened, and they want it as automated as possible. That's where we're focusing all our time, money, and attention right now is in the robotics of the process and we're making great strides as we speak. [bctt tweet="What customers want is expediency in the process. They want less paperwork, they want the time frame to be lessened, and they want it to be as automated as possible." username=""] There's so much you can do with robotics with this for those who are not technology-oriented. It's such a critical area that we focus on. Looking at some of the questions, what are your thoughts and predictions on where the workforce is going to be working and what does it look like moving forward post-COVID? We all doubted what we could do in a remote situation when we first went into this. Although we, as a company, myself included, are pushing people remotely. We were hiring people from wherever they were. It didn't matter if you were in the building. We've been hiring and doing remote work for quite a long time. When March 13, 2020 hit, I had to tell the entire company of 300 folks that there should be no one in the building. They should get home and start working. It was a beautiful thing. It was plug-and-play. Everyone was up and running because we had done it. We had tested it before and it's gone well. If I’m at home every day and not be sitting at the water cooler having the social events that you typically have in the office takes a lot out of how you build culture. It does strain the leadership to figure out ways to continue the culture and the camaraderie. What we've all found out is that we may be more efficient being at home because there are fewer distractions, assuming you have the right workplace at home, than sitting in the office and Mary or Joe coming by your desk and wanting to talk for half an hour or some other distraction or whatever's going on. What we have done is renegotiate our lease. We had almost 12,000 square feet in a certain area for a lot of the corporate office people. We downsized it to about 8,000. We made all offices in cubicles much larger than they were there. We took an office that can handle almost 80 to 100 people down to 50. Honestly, we probably won't fill that. We'll probably have 30 to 40 people max at any time. A lot of that is because of some of the essential workers we have that handle some papers, notes, mail, and things like that. There may be occasionally HR or ITs in the office. It's going to run the gamut. We're going to be practicing hoteling. We have some software. We're going to allow people to reserve like you go into a hotel. It's like going on a trip. I need a hotel for two nights. I need a cubicle for two days when I'm in the corporate office because I have to do something there with somebody. That's fine. We're going to be doing that. We're very stringent and concerned. We’re very protective of our employees so we will not allow anyone in the building who doesn't have some resemblance of either vaccinations or testing or something to that nature. We went the whole year. We protected our staff. The ones that were in the office of about a dozen people will all stay healthy and happy and I want to keep it that way. I think we're going to see, not just in the mortgage banking industry but throughout the world here with different industries, the old school come back and force people back into the office in many aspects. However, the thinkers or the people who trust and or even handle it will allow remote working to continue assuming that the work ethic continues to grow and becomes more efficient through different aspects of what we will deploy. I don't have a problem with somebody who wants to sit in Florida while our corporate office is in New Jersey. As long as the job gets done and they do it efficiently, I have no problem. It saves a lot of money and makes us more effective. It challenges me and my team to figure out ways to continue building and expanding the culture of a business. That's on me. That's not on them.

  You're spot on. More companies are anticipating that. I am surprised that the amount of square footage is increasing. They're anticipating bringing their workforce back. They may be a little bit surprised that a lot of them are saying, “I like this. That commute got to be a real pain. This is working very nicely for me. They're going to have statistics that provide data that suggests I'm much better off at home.” It’s good stuff. We could go on and on. I enjoyed this interview and conversation. It flows so well. I can see why so many people turn to you as the thought leader, Bob Broeksmit being one of the more recent ones. You have a great perspective and a good basis behind your perspective and very articulate. I appreciate you being here with us. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was my pleasure. I’ll do it again. Let me know. Let's have you back again soon. I have several requests saying, “Get them back. That was a great interview.” In the next episode, we've got Joe DeDominicis of NRL Mortgage. He is another one of our clients. Kevin is also one of our clients. He said, “Do you usually have your clients on?” I was like, “No. We don’t have clients on here.” If you want to come on, we'd love to hear from you. It's more about what you want to say. We're not into producing infomercials here. We don't do that. We want to share thought leadership with our industry. Joe DeDominicis of NRL is doing some very innovative things. I can't wait to get him on and share his perspective as well. That's going to be the same level of interview as we've had with Kevin. Be sure to tune in next time as we interview our good friend, Joe DeDominicis. I want to say a special thank you again to our sponsors, Finastra, CMLA, as well as Indecomm, Insellerate, Mobility MMI, Modex, The MBA, Knowledge Coop, Lenders One, and the Mortgage Collaborative. Thank you so much for sharing this show with others and we thank you so much for being a part of our ever-growing community. Thank you so much.  

 Important Links

• EMM
• Les Parker – Past Episode
• IndustrySyndicate.com
• Finastra
• Mortgage Bankers Association of America
• Bob Broeksmit – Past Episode
• Lenders One
• The Mortgage Collaborative
• The Community Mortgage Lenders of America
• Indecomm
• Linda Bomar – Past Episode
• Insellerate
• Josh Friend – Past Episode
• Knowledge Coop
• Mobility MMI
• Modex
• NRL Mortgage